Author Topic: .45 ACP for deer?  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline BRL

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.45 ACP for deer?
« on: February 22, 2004, 03:10:40 AM »
I live in S.W. Florida where the deer here are not much bigger than a German Shepard. Also, the brush is pretty thick and shots are usually close. Would I be crazy to consider using a .45 ACP? I would like to try something different, and being that I do the most shooting at the range with my .45's, thought I would be up for the task. Obviously, distance, load and shot placement would be critical. Also, I would be hunting from the ground, not a tree stand. Has anyone ever used the .45 ACP on deer?
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2004, 03:49:34 AM »
never have personally but my buddys killed a couple and it did ok. Just use a flat nose cast bullet and push it to 800+fps and it will do the job. I used simular loads in the .45 colt and .44 special/mag and they worked fine.
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Offline Will

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2004, 04:56:10 AM »
I think you should be fine at close Florida ranges. I think too many people put too much emphasis on "is it powerful enough" and not enough on shot placement. I've seen deer killed dead with a .22 revolver, shot just behind the shoulder. It's all about the shot placement, and up close, that .45 will do fine. I think those larger magnum calibers are better if they're available, and they extend the effective range quite a bit.
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Offline Redhawk1

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2004, 06:42:51 AM »
BRL, I think you would be just fine at close renge. If a bow & arrow will bring one down, a 45ACP would sure work. As you stated shot placement is the key. :)  Good luck.
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Offline Jim Stacy

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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2004, 01:26:48 PM »
Shot placement with the fastest 200 grain load you can land. Personally I like 10.0/ blue dot and 200 swc cast very hard, and aftere that it how you get to Carnegie hall , practice ,practice &practice.  :grin:

Offline BRL

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2004, 03:47:33 AM »
Gentlemen, thanks for the input and re-assurance. I'll start working on some loads and practice for next season. I'm looking forward to it!
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Offline Questor

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2004, 03:57:27 AM »
I'd try something like a Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP on those little deer. I'd try to use +P velocities if possible.  The 45 is really quite a wimpy cartridge for hunting.
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Offline Norseman

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2004, 11:36:13 AM »
No one seems to have a problem dropping a 280 pound criminal with a .45 ACP. while on crack!  (The criminal that is :)  What problem is there in dropping a deer (within archery type ranges) with a .45ACP? I have seen deer dropped with one single 00 12 ga ball.  I would recommend the COR BON 230 grain hollow point at over 900 fps though.  Use no FMJ.  You deer will drop! Hope this helps.  It doesn't take a 50 BMG to drop a deer.
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Offline Robert

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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2004, 01:12:58 PM »
Ya gotta be able to 'HIT' a deer.  You better move someplace where there's bigger deer.  Ha Ha!
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Offline Buckskinner

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2004, 02:25:24 PM »
I recall that Jeff Cooper used to promote what he called the ".40-200-1000" rule which he used to determine a cartridges suitability for deer sized game, or self defense. He advised that one should use no caliber less than .40 along with a bullet weight of no less than 200 grains and at a velocity of no less than 1,000fps. His preferred load then was 7.6 grains of Unique and a hard cast 215 grain semi wadcutter at near 1,100 fps. He reported that the load was adequate on deer.

I have no reason to think that under the circumstances that you describe here, that you would have any trouble taking a deer with the .45 acp. I have killed deer with a 2.5 inch .357 using Speers' 146 grain jswchp and had no trouble, under similar circumstance.
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Offline SingleShotShorty

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2004, 04:52:20 AM »
A 45acp will kill a deer given the right shot placement and range but in most states the are not a legal cartridge for deer. Besides ther are allot better calibers for the job.
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Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: .45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2004, 09:39:37 AM »
BRL

"I live in S.W. Florida where the deer here are not much bigger than a German Shepard. Also, the brush is pretty thick and shots are usually close. Would I be crazy to consider using a .45 ACP? I would like to try something different, and being that I do the most shooting at the range with my .45's, thought I would be up for the task. Obviously, distance, load and shot placement would be critical. Also, I would be hunting from the ground, not a tree stand. Has anyone ever used the .45 ACP on deer?[/quote]"

The .45 ACP is certainly capable of killing deer.  You don't say which handgun you intend to use but you seem to have a good handle on the limitations.  As previously mentioned Cooper's axiom of .40-200-1000 is a good one.  I always preferred the old Speer 200 gr HP (FAT bullet) but they are getting hard to find.  I have seen the Florida deer from military time there and I have family living just north of Orlando.  The deer are pretty small but still worthy of hunting.  I would suggest a Speer 180 Gold Dot over 7.8 gr of Unique or the 200 gr Gold Dot over 7.5 gr of Unique.  these loads are "up there" so work up to them.  They run 1080 and 1030 fps out of my 5.5" comp'd government model.  They DO kill deer as from personal experience (german shepards and pit bulls too).

Larry Gibson

Offline FogOfWar

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2004, 05:57:23 AM »
This is an interesting read and it reminds me of a story.  I am a police officer in Northern Michigan and back in 1996 I had the joy of deer hunting in a place my family has used for years.( State land no less )  Well at that time in my hunting life I was one of those "Super-caliber-scoped-howitzer" users.  The day I took a very beefy 6-pointer I was carrying my "Forest - Artillery"  Well after a morning of nothing but boredom I was met by my brother in law who came to my blind to retreive me for breakfast.  Being the safety oriented guy, (read safety anal-retentive), I slung the ole' cannon over the shoulder and started my trek towards our truck.  Oh as a little side I always carry a back-up weapon, even in the trees, and this day I was carrying my Glock 21 in a shoulder rig stoked with 14 rounds of 230 Winchester Black Talon. ( Which by the way was an awesome round.  Pitty they discontinued it.)  Well to make a long story longer here I am walking with a $1500 artillery piece on my shoulder when out of the trees directly to my front walks a doe.  Now I don't know who was more surprised, her or me, but my Airborne training kicked in and I froze in place.  The doe snuffed once gave me a glance and then she continued on her way.  I remember girls doing that to me at a bar once.  Anyways while I still remained still and quiet another doe walked out from where the first one came from.  So again I just admired her beauty from a distance.  Then I started to thinking, which is dangerous for me.  I thought if I've seen two doe then maybe their boyfriend will show up.  Well I'm here to tell you that's exactally what happened.  Out walks Mr. Stud 6 point all puffed up and looking for love.  Remember I told you it was dangerous for me to think?  While I was sitting there doing all that thinking I forgot to unsling my rifle.  So there I am 20 yards in front of a 6 pointer and I don't have a weapon ready.  Luckily for me the buck wasn't thinking to clearly and his powers of observation were focused on the ladies at the time.  Ever so slowly I eased my Glock from its holster and brought it up to lock on for the shot.  Oh yeah at this time my brother-in-law is stark still too.  Well Mr. Buck takes a few steps then does the unthinkable.  He turns broadside to me and then stops, picture perfect.  The range was 25 yards now, give or take a yard.  So with a smile on my face I squeeze the trigger of the Glock and BANG!!  The next sound I hear is my brother-in-law yelling, "You got Him, You got Him!"  I was as the buck runs maybe 50 feet then falls over DRT. ( Dead Right There )  So the moral of the story....?  I ate back-straps that night thanks to the .45 acp......
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Offline FogOfWar

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2004, 06:13:32 AM »
Oh yeah I forgot to add something to the above story.  Now that I'm older and wiser, I have become a traditionalist / minimalist when it comes to hunting.  Although I still carry a back up weapon everywhere I go  my rifle of choice is an iron-sighted Winchester 94 in 30-30.  And its devastating on whitetails....
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Offline BRL

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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2004, 05:52:24 AM »
Thanks for everyone's replys. There were some real good ones. I am somewhat of a minimalist too. I have used the big calibers and powerful magnums before; but now I am more interested in the lighter loads just enough to kill cleanly. I guess I want to mimic a bowhunting experience without the bow...hence my desire for the .45 ACP and the like. Thanks everyone.

BRL
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Offline HOS

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2004, 04:53:16 AM »
BRL, some yrs. back I made a lightweight Bobcat 1911 .45acp for my wife to carry.  I loaded 3.5 grs. bullseye and a 185 swc for low recoil.  Her and her girlfreind were out riding during deer season and a buck goes running up the hill, about 50 yds. away, and she shoots it in the neck,breaks it's neck, drops it in it's tracks
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Offline Duffy

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2004, 10:36:52 PM »
Just worked up a load that should take out a deer. I have a  LBT 230g FN that I put on top of 6.5g of Longshot in a Wolf steel case with a WW primer. Amazingly accurate and runs around 900 fps.  Don't have to worry about losing the brass either. :)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2004, 11:23:32 PM »
You  sound like you should still be a good yupper lots of them sure have been killed with the winchesters up here. I have killed dear with .45 long colts at that level and never felt undergunned. I would suggest a good hardcast semi wadcutter though. My buddy has killed a couple in his smith acp revolver with that load and says it does great. As a matter of fact id feel more undergunned with a .357 and the best load that you could shoot in it.
Quote from: FogOfWar
Oh yeah I forgot to add something to the above story.  Now that I'm older and wiser, I have become a traditionalist / minimalist when it comes to hunting.  Although I still carry a back up weapon everywhere I go  my rifle of choice is an iron-sighted Winchester 94 in 30-30.  And its devastating on whitetails....
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Offline BRL

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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2004, 06:08:23 AM »
Great info guys, thanks. I've been having fun at the range trying out several loads. Come November, I should be quite the shooter.
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Offline handirifle

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2004, 09:05:20 AM »
I see a lot of posters here and other places the mention if an arrow can kill one (of whatever) then this caliber will too.

Just for the record, I have been hunting with a bow for over 40 years and camparing arrows and bullets are apples and oranges.

First, an arrow kills ONLY by hemorage.  Hemorage only happens with two things, a razor sharp edge and penetration.  Take away either and you have a superficial wound.  The slow/heavy vs. light/fast arrow debate goes on in archery circles just as it does here.  In my mind too many people try to compare the light fast arrow affect like one would a bullet.

Fred Bear proved over 50 years ago the power of the slow heavy arrow.  My point in all this is a 50lb recurve bow shooting a 600gr arrow tipped with a razor sharp, well constructed, (Magnus or Zwickey type) 2 blade broadhead, will penetrate over two feet of flesh and bone and in doing so leave 4 ft of damage in it's wake (2ft penetration X 2 edges).  Hit in the proper place, ie. lungs heart, liver, kidneys, it will kill the animal in a matter of a few short minutes or less.

An arrow can be pushed in slowly and still be every bit as effective.  A bullet take a considerable more force to push its way through, since it is not cutting its way.  Since a bullet is NOT cutting, a small diameter wound from a slow bullet, like a 22 LR for example, can and often will, close up behind the bullet.  The wound will still bleed and if placed in the correct spot cause death.  This is the reason higher velocity is needed.  The higher velocity causes a shock wave that destroys flesh for some distance around it.  In larger calibers, like slow 45's the wound channel, even though from a slow bullet, will be suffecient to bleed out the animal quickly.

From a cartridge like the 45 ACP, as mentioned in this post, there is still quite a bit of blunt force on impact from a 240gr bullet, that combined with the wound channel will do the job, but not like an arrow.

Often times an animal hit with a razor 2 blade sharp broadhead will know something hit it, but not have felt much more than a sharp sting.  Not so with a bullet since it is like being hit with a hammer at the same time.

I'd take a stab that more animals have been killed over time with an arrow than a bullet, and just about everything that walks the earth has died from an arrow wound.  Just like a bullet, it is about shot placement and penetration, but they really should NEVER be compared.
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Offline RadioTech

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.45 ACP for Deer
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2004, 10:22:15 AM »
Be sure to check with the state laws, many states don't allow certain handgun cartridges and often have a specific list or minimum dimension for the cartridge.  Oklahoma specifies a minimum of 4 inch barrel, .240 diameter, 100 gr. bullet and overall cartridge length over 1.25 inches.  That would exclude the .45 ACP as too short in spite of the bullet weight and diameter.
Personally I agree with the above posts and think that a .45 is plenty for most deer under the right distance and conditions.
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Offline The deerslayer

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2004, 11:07:38 AM »
I think it would work for bear too. I just got done reading a post about somebody who shot two big bear with the 45acp.

Offline Mikey

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The 45 ACP and Bears
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2004, 03:26:51 AM »
fred722 - the 45 ACP and bears is not a good idea, period.  That's really stretching the applicability of the 45 acp.  It may have happened and someone sure may have gotten lucky, but that's not a good idea.  Fortunately, most 45s don't have very high front sights, so you shouldn't feel too much pain when the bear introduces your butt to your 45 auto.  Mikey.

Offline willysjeep134

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2004, 10:10:35 PM »
Quote from: Lloyd Smale
You  sound like you should still be a good yupper lots of them sure have been killed with the winchesters up here. .............................................................................................................................Oh yeah I forgot to add something to the above story.  Now that I'm older and wiser, I have become a traditionalist / minimalist when it comes to hunting.  Although I still carry a back up weapon everywhere I go  my rifle of choice is an iron-sighted Winchester 94 in 30-30.  And its devastating on whitetails....
(I know, I took some out)

Yupper, eh? :P  I'm a Yooper myself. Actually, I'm from down HappyRock way myself. I prefer the iron sighted 30-30 for most of my hunting. Mostly down in the cedars. I've toyed with the idea of using my black powder revolver for late season deer. I have one of those buntline looking .44 remingtons with the foot long barrel. I got to put it on the chrony and I found out that a 150 some grain ball comes out of the muzzle at 1000 FPS, which is around 44-40 velocity.

As to bullets vs. arrows above, the bullet is bound to punch a hole in the animal, like an arrow. The shock is like an added bonous. I am convinced that most any caliber bullet can cause at least as much hemmorage as an arrow with a normal broadhead. Even a .22 has to be about as good as a field point. Bullets may not slice through, but wouldn't a bullet tearing it's way through be just as damaging?  I think that when you take into consideration the inevitable hemmorage, the likelyhood of hitting a major organ like a lung or the heart (Which I know can't function for very long with any hole in them) I would say that when compared to even something like a .38 special, I think the arrow is at a disadvantage. My theory is that if a bullet can get at least half way through a deer it stands as good of a chance of killing, even if only by hemmorage, as an arrow from a bow. A bullet wound without much energy transfer is still a wound. This is just my opinion though, and I have been wrong before. I mean no harm, but I disagree that an arrow can be more effective than a bullet causing a similar wound.


Posted the next day:

Ok, now that I have some sleep in me I get your drift. To sum up my thoughts: An arrow is more capable of causing hemmorage than some bullets, but most bullets can cause just as much damage as an arrow, given that a bullet with enough energy to penetrate is going to have enough energy to do a little tissue damage, at least I think.
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Offline Yankee Reloader

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2004, 06:56:30 AM »
Well if your Hll bent for election on using the 45ACP I would suggest the 185gr Barnes XPB pistol bullet using 8.2gr Hodgens Longshot which I have used as a powder with great success in accuracy and velocity. I actually cheat and put a 16lb Wolff spring in my Ruger P97 and use 45Super brass and worked my Longshot loads up to 10.0 grains with no sign of over pressure on the primers. Most Good Gov models can do the same with the Wolff extra power recoil spring kits and 45 Super brass. Start with max 45acp loads and work your way up SLOWLY. If you decide to just go with the plain setup and not opt for 45 super then like I said 8.2gr longshot in NEW brass with the Barnes 45 bullet. Like others have said, shot placement is vital as with any gun.
p.s. the 45 super brass is available through Midway.

Offline v-man

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2004, 12:57:52 AM »
Just a different approach to consider. I love my .45's but for a little extra punch I've droped in a .400 CorBon barrel and loaded up some 180gr XTP's at about 1175fps just to carry a different back-up during deer/hog season here in Florida. Can't wait to give it a try. It's a great round in my 1911 but even better in my Ruger P90.

Offline Robert357

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For the 45ACP
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2004, 06:30:44 AM »
Since others are suggesting ammo, and not sure if you handload or not, I will point you in the direction of Buffalo Bore 45 ACP+P heavy factory loads.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45acp

The ft-lb's energy is pretty impressive for factory ammo and they have a nice choice of bullets.  Good luck.  This fall, I may try using a Blackhawk revolver (either 357 Mag or 45 (long) Colt) on deer, depending upon how I feel.

Offline fffffg

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.45 ACP for deer?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2004, 09:54:28 PM »
i have a gold cup.. shot it at 100yards once.. with 230  grain bullets it was keyholeing regularly. that was  many years ago.. so with whatever load your using id put 10 rounds in a piece of white paper  at what you would call maximum range and make sure it isnt keyholing by inspecting the holes in the paper for  roundness(maybe 40-50 yards?).  if they are not round that could be keyholing which will greatly reduce velocity, power and pennetration..  hopefully it will not be an issue for you,  a..balistics get wierd in my thoughts as to twist rate, bullet lenght,  so the easist way to check it out is to check on paper..you can also shoot stacked  2x6 boards to see what pennetration your getting..1 1/2- 2- 2 1/2  inches at close range is alot for this kind of gun.. a 500 grain 45-70 with 1200 fps will go thru a 8 inch green pine  tree like butter.. just to give you and idea of what is going on with power from different guns..  the archery analagy was pretty good,  in differering situations onewill do more damage than the other the .45 is smaller, the broad head is 1 1/8 inch, if you hit a rib the .45 may blow pieces thru tissue,or  it may give a slow bleadeing situation needing tracking in fading light, a lantern and patience may be required, but a feat that you will remeber for a lifetime..  good luck this fall dave..
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Offline BRL

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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2004, 09:32:10 AM »
Hey V-Man...You live in FL? Where in FL? I live in the SW area, Naples. I would like to talk to you about places to hunt when you have time. I am having a hard time finding good hunting that isn't over crowded. I am even looking at purchasing property near Cedar Key. Would love to chat sometime.

Thanks,

BRL
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