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Offline Dali Llama

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« on: August 17, 2004, 08:43:38 AM »
SUCKERS FOR JESUS

The Republican party, once the home of liberals, conservationists, internationalists, and moderate Christians, is now dominated by an improbable alliance of libertarians, free market absolutists, greedy plutocrats, and Christian fundamentalists.

Ernest Partridge
 
August 17, 2004
 
  Beware of false prophets that come to you in sheepÂ’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Jesus of Nazareth
(Matthew, 7:15)
 
The Republican party, once the home of liberals, conservationists, internationalists, and moderate Christians, is now dominated by an improbable alliance of libertarians, free market absolutists, greedy plutocrats, and Christian fundamentalists.  The first three, "the secular right," clearly gain a great deal from their alliance.  But how have the Christians, "the religious right," been persuaded to cast their lot with the Republican party?

How does one convince millions of devout Christians to accept a secular political-economic philosophy developed and articulated, in large part, by atheists? How does one, in addition,
enable this same multitude of Christians to disregard how their political “allies” are taking cash out of their pockets and redistributing it “upward” from the middle class and the poor to the already wealthy, at the cost, in addition, of impoverishing essential social services, aid to the poor, and placing a crushing debt upon future generations? And finally, how are these Christians persuaded that the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are somehow consistent with aggressive foreign wars, the increased enrichment of the wealthy, the denial of relief to the poor, comfort to the afflicted, education for the young, and employment for the jobless.?

No small accomplishment. But the political geniuses of the Radical Right who have captured the Republican party, have brought it off. They had to. For without the inclusion of the Religious Right in their coalition, they would lack the “foot soldiers” – the votes – that are essential to their political power.

Here are the “players:”

The libertarians are champions of “limited government,” believing that the only legitimate functions of government are the protection of life, liberty and property – by means of the military (defense against foreign enemies), the police (defense against domestic enemies), and the courts (protection of property). Taxes in support of anything else -- schools, the arts, environmental protection – are regarded by the libertarians as unwarranted seizures of private property, in a word, “theft.” (For more about libertarian doctrine, see my “With Liberty for Some” and “Environmental Justice and ‘Shared Fate’”).

The Free Market Absolutists.  (The phrase is from George Soros). This faction embraces and promotes the economic program of the libertarians. The FMAs believe that all social problems and government functions can best be dealt with if all national assets are privatized, and if the free market exchange of goods, services and investment assets is allowed to proceed without impediment. In other words, the FMAs believe that the optimum social order is obtained, “as if by an invisible hand” (Adam Smith), through the summation of individual self-enhancing “capitalist acts between consenting adults.” (Robert Nozick). (See my “The New Alchemy”).

The PlutocratsÂ’ governing “ideology” can be distilled down to a single word: More!  Like George Bush, they “donÂ’t do nuance.” Plutocrats hate governments because governments impose taxes and because they regulate the plutocratsÂ’ enterprises. Plutocrats recognize no “public interest.” As Commodore Vanderbilt famously proclaimed, “the public be damned – I work for my stockholders.” Plutocrats defend and promote free enterprise and competition – among their rivals. For themselves, they much prefer monopolies. Despite their proclaimed enmity toward government, they seek control of government as an instrument of their personal wealth-enhancement.

(There are still other components of the Radical Right alliance, such as the neo-conservative imperialists and the “paranoid right” of militias and skin-heads. But for the sake of simplicity, we will leave them aside).

Together these factions plus the religious right constitute a formidable political force.  The plutocrats supply the money, the libertarians and free marketeers articulate the political dogma, and the fundamentalists provide the votes. (Kevin Phillips writes that “according to national polls in 2000, evangelicals and fundamentalists cast fully 40 percent of BushÂ’s vote, and his 84 percent support among committed evangelicals was higher than any previous Republican nominee:). Without those votes, the political clout of the right-wing regressives would collapse, and the right would be appropriately relegated the fringes of the body politic.

This is a very agreeable arrangement for “the secular Right” -- the libertarians, the free-marketeers, and the plutocrats, who have little to dispute amongst themselves. But the alliance of the secular right with the religious right is a marriage of convenience – convenient for the secular right, which prefers to keep its pious “partners” barefoot, ignorant and pregnant. “Barefoot” in the sense of impoverished, ignorant of how they are being exploited, and “pregnant” in the sense being productive of votes.

For close inspection reveals that the secular and religious right have little in common, and because this is so the secularists are anxious that the religious right refrain from such “close inspection.”

Consider the contrasts:

Many of the most prominent promoters of libertarianism during the past forty years have been avowed atheists; among them Ayn Rand, Nathaniel Brandon, John Hospers and Robert Nozick. Yet this appears not to bother the evangelicals.

In addition, libertarians share with many liberals a determined opposition to government interference in the private lives of individuals. Accordingly, the libertarians endorse the legalization of marijuana, pornography and prostitution, and they oppose anti-drug laws, restrictions on abortion and discrimination against homosexuals. Strange, isn’t it, that the fundamentalists appear not to notice this agenda of their libertarian “allies”?

Furthermore, the secularists are, of course, generally well-educated and scientifically sophisticated, and thus they accept evolution and reject biblical literalism. They may, however, occasionally pretend otherwise in order to mollify the fundamentalists.

Next, there is the issue of economic justice. It is a safe bet that the socio-economic-educational status of the average fundamentalist is markedly below that of average American citizens. This means that many fundamentalist families are one paycheck or one serious family illness away from financial disaster. Can they not appreciate that their wealthy “allies” on the Right are not “their brothers’ keepers”? Under the right-wing economic policies, the rich get richer while the middle class and the poor hold their ground if they are lucky, and lose ground if they are not. And there is the ever-growing threat of unemployment. For the vast majority of our fellow citizens, the pittance of Bush’s federal tax refunds are more than offset by the necessary increases in state and local taxes and in the loss of government services – fire and police protection, health care, public schooling, financial aid for higher education.

We all know the sorry economic conditions brought on by right-wing policies. Why then do the victims, who happen to adhere to “the old-time religion,” meekly support their oppressors? And why does Jesus’ admonition to the rich man – “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matt. 19:21) – not apply to their political leaders, or, for that matter, their “spiritual leaders”?

The most jarring disconnect, however, is between the morality of secular-right policies and behavior on the one hand, and the clear message of the ethics of Jesus on the other hand. For those who need reminding, read once more The Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount: (Matt. 5)
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.
Fundamentalists like to ask: “What would Jesus do?” Good question! So let’s ask them:
Would Jesus launch a “war of choice” against a non-threatening country?
 

Would Jesus cut back on school lunches for poor children?
 

Would Jesus decline to comfort “those who mourn” as the soldiers’ caskets arrive at Dover Air Force Base?
 

Would Jesus sign 155 death warrants, giving the clemency appeals only a cursory glance?

George Bush wants to tell the world that heÂ’s been “born again.” But “born again” to what? To pacifism, humility, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, frugality?  The Bible teaches that “By their fruits shall ye know them.” (Matt: 7:20)   It seems that Mr. Bush has not learned very much from his “favorite philosopher.” (See my “What Would Jesus Do?).

Why, then, do religious fundamentalists follow, and vote for, wealthy and powerful individuals who openly violate the basic moral teachings of their “Lord and Savior”?  True, there are bloody and brutal chapters in the Bible, and the millennial (“rapture”) fundamentalists often preach as if the Book of Revelation were the only book in the Bible. But the fundamentalists also believe that the recorded words of Jesus in the Gospels are the words of God Himself. And the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount that contains it, are the central foundation of Christian ethics. What fundamentalist Christian would deny that Jesus said, and meant, “Blessed are the Peacemakers?” If they believe this, then if they would "do what Jesus would do," they must come to terms with its full implications.

Given these clear and unyielding foundations of Christian morality, how has the secular right managed to seduce the fundamentalists so completely?  Surely this must stand as one of the most amazing accomplishments in the history of marketing!

The tacticians of the Right began, as all good salesmen begin, by identifying the “hot buttons” of "the mark” (customer), and proceeding to push those buttons.

Fundamentalists crave strong and charismatic leadership. So such leaders were sought out, and then lavishly funded, enabling them to establish colleges, publishing houses and broadcasting networks. Hence the spectacular growth of such subsidiaries of “Jesus, Inc.” as Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, Pat Robertson’s Regent University, and, before they were busted, Jim and Tammy Bakker’s “PTL Club” (“Pass the Loot”).

Fundamentalists are most comfortable with a Manichean world view – a concept of the world as a battleground between unalloyed good (us) and evil (them). (“You are either with us or against us.” GWB). For several decades, Communism fit the bill supremely well. But with the fall of communism, new evils had to be identified, and so they were: Islam abroad, and Liberalism at home.

The demonization of Liberalism is a text-book example of “branding” – piling emotions and attitudes onto a label. Until recently, “liberalism” was a honorific term, as indicated by its dictionary definition: “favoring reform or progress ... specifically favoring political reform tending toward democracy and personal freedom for the individual.” (Websters Unabridged, 2nd ed.) And, in fact, when a cross-section of the American public is asked about such liberal advancements as the minimum wage, social security, Medicare, racial integration, environmental protection, etc., a large majority approves. But the word “liberal” itself has been so besmirched by the Right that in self-identification polls, “liberal” generally comes in a poor third to “conservative” and “moderate.”

The Right has, in effect, established a separate and distinct definition of “liberal,” so that it is effectively equated with “libertinism” – sex, drugs and rock ‘n roll. In addition, the Right’s use of “liberal” connotes the stifling of religion, welfare cheating, profligate government spending (as in “tax-and-spend-liberals”) and even, in the hands of such uninhibited ranters as Ann Coulter, treason.

In short, this redefined “liberalism” serves well as an embodiment of “evil” to the religious right. And when this sense of “liberalism” is associated, through constant repetitions, with the Democratic Party – well, you know the rest.

Finally, the tacticians of the Right have learned that fundamentalists are typically much more sensitive to personal immorality (“sin”) than they are to social immorality (injustice). Thus when, for example, George Bush speaks to the religious right, his themes are “right to life” (anti-abortion), opposition to gay marriage, but rarely economic injustice, ethnic discrimination or civil liberties. Recall that on the contrary, secular libertarians are very tolerant about private personal conduct, provided that it is “victimless.” But the libertarians also take care not to make a point of this in the company of their allies of the religious right.

It follows from the preceding account that if the Democrats are looking for a “wedge” that might disable the political clout of the regressives, then here it is. The Fundamentalist Christians have been “had” – suckered – by the libertarians and oligarchs. Thus the fundamentalists have worked diligently and faithfully toward their own disadvantage and undoing.

If the rank and file of fundamentalist Christians in the “religious right” can somehow be shown that they are being used to further the interests not of themselves but of their oppressors, and that by so doing they are violating the central moral precepts of their “Lord and Savior,” then the political power of the radical right will collapse. (Assuming that our public offices continue to be founded on the consent of the governed, through free and open elections. If not, then all bets are off).

Accordingly, Christian conservatives should be prime recruitment targets of progressive political movements, including “the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.”


How might the fundamentalists, the “foot soldiers of the radical right,” be persuaded to abandon their service in behalf of their exploiters on the Right?

First of all, moderate and liberal religious leaders must shed their reluctance to involve themselves in politics. Normally, such reluctance is justified, for it is responsive to our tradition of the separation of church and state. But these are not normal times, for there is no such reluctance on the part of the religious right to throw themselves into the midst of our politics. Thus, when the field of political contention and debate is abandoned by one side, the other side prevails, and much of the public comes to believe that the fundamentalists must be right because no religious leaders see fit to disagree.

And so, it is past time for liberal and progressive religious leaders to speak out – and to act out, by participation in peace protests, by personal involvement with and assistance to the poor, and with active support of progressive candidates and participation in the political process. In particular, liberal evangelicals should, like Jimmy Carter, take the lead in “preaching” and demonstrating by example, the Christian virtues of compassion, charity, humility and passivism.

The hypocrisy and venality of prominent leaders of the religious right must be exposed. The fall of Jimmy Swaggert and the Bakkers threw cold water on the over-heated fanaticism of their followers. It is past time to expose Pat RobertsonÂ’s investments in African diamond mines and his dealings with African despots like LiberiaÂ’s Charles Taylor.

Finally, constant attention and exposure must be given to the unchristian behavior of the plutocrats, and the unchristian implications of their policies. Cruelty, callousness, greed and aggressive warfare are not Christian virtues.


Some readers will no doubt have additional and better ideas about how to pry the fundamentalist Christians away from the radical right alliance. We invite you to send these ideas to us at crisispapers@comcast.net , so that we might continue this discussion.
 
Ernest Partridge, Co-Editor "The Crisis Papers."
Copyright 2004 by Ernest Partridge
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2004, 09:05:31 AM »
that writer is an idiot.  Trying to boil politics down to groups is an exercise destined to failure.  He fails to mention lots of things that link the Religious Right to Republicans, perhaps most notably being pro-life.  This says nothing about the oppositions "progressive" social agenda.  Christians share with other Republicans a belief in family and tradition.  He also says, "How does one convince millions of devout Christians to accept a secular political-economic philosophy developed and articulated, in large part, by atheists?"  That statement is not only misleading, it's ignorant.  The vast majority of the founding fathers (all of them?) were christian.  I've got no clue who this guy is, I never know where Dali gets this stuff, but this guy is a simplistic idiot who uses correlation to try and prove causation.

Perhaps Charles Warner said it best 150 years ago when he said, "Politics makes strange bedfellows."

Offline Hooker

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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2004, 06:19:28 PM »
I suppose christians should crawl in bed with baby killing homosexual indorsed whore mongers of the democratic party.
What a bunch of crap.
Dali where did you dredge up this stink from.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2004, 01:22:19 AM »
Quote from: Hooker

What a bunch of crap.
Dali where did you dredge up this stink from.

Pat
Dali Llama say that in interest of "know thine enemy" philosophy, Dali obtain aforementioned information from left wing web site.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Hooker

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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2004, 07:41:21 AM »
Dali your right( Know thy enemy) Some times when their BS is so whacked I forget that rule. Thanks for the reminder.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Online ironglow

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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 04:43:16 PM »
Well the Libs asked for it! They want to know what would allow we REAL "Bible believing" Christians to give the Dumacrats another look.
   I'll be glad to help them....here's a few changes to make with the Demon-cratic party...If you put into effect all these suggestions...we will probably consider you again...

  1) Stop treating perverts as "special" citizens

 2) Stop giving our tax money to perverted "artists" so they can do disgusting, blasphemous works.

 3) Stop fielding presidential candidates that declare that "life begins at conception", and then applauds the clinics that tears these same , small lives to shreds while they are being born.

 4) Stop defending philandering presidents that molest interns that are barely out of their teens.

 5) Stop, or do your best to stop the A.C.L.U. from harrassing Christians, every chance they get.

 5) Stop promoting the biased charade called "affirmative action", when we all know it is "preferential action"...based on race!

 6) Stop standing in the way of tort reform..that  often adds up to 100% to the cost of our products and services.

 7) Stop refraining from condemning the same sins that Jesus condemned: lying, drunkeness, drug use, homosexuality, adultry, using his name in vain, false witnessing (e.g. Moore, Gore, Kerry)

 8) Stop cozying up to the perverted, profligate, self-centered Hollyweird left!

 9) Stop promoting "political correctness" which is truly "thought police" in very light disguise.

 10) Stop ridiculing Bible believing Christians...as was done in this very op-ed piece that asked for suggestions..

  11) Stop trying to gain votes by the "divide and conquer" method. Do not continue to attempt to pit rich vs poor, women vs men, black vs white, children vs parents, rural vs urban, union vs non-union, Muslim vs Jews vs Christians or enviromentalists vs entrepreneurs....etc. etc., on and on ad nauseum.

  12) Stop harrassing some Christian Churches, threatening their tax-exempt status...because they tend to speak conservatively, while making political speeches and holding political rallies at other Christian churches.

  13) Stop favoring union dominated contractors for government supplies and services...let all citizens compete for contracts on a "level playing field".

 14) Stop catering to trial liars (lawyers)...adopt the "loser pays" plan for frivilous law suits.

15) Stop promoting teenage promiscuity with the distribution of condoms and  conspiring with irresponsible, juvenile girls to secretly murder many parents grandchildren before they are born and without the juvenile's parent's consent..

 16) Stop trying to destroy the letter AND spirit of the second amendment; call a special session of congress where the Democrats can reaffirm the truth of that amendment and assure the voting public that they do indeed...know what"shall not be infringed" means.

    So, Ernest Partridge, if the Democrats do all these things as a "good faith" effort to start and continue to improve from there, some of us may indeed take a fresh look...

  In short, Democrats, become more conservative, more Godly and more sensible...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline magooch

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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2004, 04:04:05 AM »
Ironglow, that pretty well sums it up.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  Since none of your suggestions will ever happen, I don't have to even think about a second look.
Swingem

Offline NYH1

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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2004, 07:07:12 AM »
Quote from: ironglow
Well the Libs asked for it! They want to know what would allow we REAL "Bible believing" Christians to give the Dumacrats another look.
   I'll be glad to help them....here's a few changes to make with the Demon-cratic party...If you put into effect all these suggestions...we will probably consider you again...

 7) Stop refraining from condemning the same sins that Jesus condemned: lying, drunkeness, drug use, homosexuality, adultry, using his name in vain, false witnessing (e.g. Moore, Gore, Kerry)


lying- All politicians lie. :shock:

drunkenness-Both political parties have their drunks. George W. Bush had his own drinking problems too, a DWI, had to stay out of strip club's because he'd get drunk and had to sit on his hands so he wouldn't touch the girls! :grin:

drug use-In the same interview as his drinking, they asked him if he ever use cocaine, he would admit to it, or deny it! :?  

homosexuality-Sick b*stard's :gun4:

adultery-I remember there was a republican I can recall if he was in the senate or the house, but he became the "speaker". He was one of "Slick Willies" biggest critic's. He stepped down as "speaker" because it be came public that he had an affair too! :wink:

Some things happen to any group of people no matter who they are or who they claim to be. :D
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2004, 07:20:32 AM »
Being a libertarian (small "L") I am a very reluctant Bush voter and Republican.  My impression is that a high percentage of folks who consider themselves libertarians don't consider themselves Republicans but rather "independents" who will vote for Bush because they see him as less of a socialist than Kerry.  I am squarely in this camp.

IMO, socialism constitutes a greater threat to freedom than does any other political philosophy.

The people I absolutely cannot understand, despite my attempts to do so, are the so-called "left libertarians."  How does one reconcile a devotion to individual liberty with socialism and high levels of govt intervention into the economy?

Offline Hooker

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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2004, 08:32:00 AM »
Mauser
Those left lebratarians have no realy loyalties. They are liberals who dont want to stand firm left or right. They usually move back and forth with their finger in the wind. Who dose that sound like?

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Offline RIFLERANGER

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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2004, 09:59:25 AM »
In a nutshell, given the worse of two evils, I will vote Bush, but ONLY because while Bush isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp, KKKerry is far worse all the way around.
Ranger
"HAVE YOU HUGGED YOUR RIFLES TODAY ?!"

Offline powderman

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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2004, 04:14:02 PM »
IRONGLOW. Excellent post Sir. POWDERMAN.  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Online ironglow

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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2004, 02:12:18 AM »
NY Hunter;
   I know you lean a bit more to the left than I do...which is not at all difficult.
   I am far enough to thre right to neatly fill the spot between  Rush and Moses...LOL.

    You have always been an "up front" guy though, so I respect you for that..

   Nevertheless, I have a bit of disagreement with your reply that I will list below:

   The things you did answer

   A) Yes, all politicians probably lie to a certain extent; but we don't want PATHOLOGICAL liars, such as;
     
   Those who stand before the nation and deliberately lie to us while shaking their finger in our face; of course Paula Jones got something more sinister shaken in her face...

   How about a guy that tries to convince us that HE invented the internet?

  How about a guy that has Christmas in Cambodia " seared in his memory"?...

 B) Drunkeness..you will note, I said "stop refraining from condemning such sins as..drunkeness.."
    Pres. Bush freely admits his youthful relationship with booze...AND CONDEMNS IT!
   We're still waiting for Teddy and others top "fess up"...
  Do you remember the old speaker of the house "Tipsy" O'neill ?

  C) Adultry..you answered your own question...Newt Gingerich and his proposed successor, after a close scrutiny by Demo investigators were both found to have had adultrous relationships in the past...they each STEPPED DOWN!
   Then, along came Willie...

   D)Homosexuality.. Yup sick, or rather sin sick.
  But only one major party backs special privileges for that gang..perhaps even marriage!

    Clearly though , I noticed you didn't address other points I brought up, and WHO backs them.. such as:

   Political correctness (thought police)

   Perverts privileges

   Providing funds to perverted artists..
   ( I am an artist, and I don't believe in govt funding of art.)

   Candidates that insist "life begins at conception", then allows for killing the little boy or girl WHILE they're being born!
  (A man that does that Must be either a LIAR or a sociopath!)

   Affirmative action....(preference based upon race)

  Tort reform...(the Dems ticket has an "ambulance chaser" as veep.)

  The "divide and conquer" syndrome ( or scheme)

   Last; but certainly not least  The Second Amendment..
   On one side, the likes of George Bush, R.Reagan, Charlton Heston, Dick Army and Tom Delay etc etc

  On the other side Kerry, Edwards, Chuck Schumer, Hitlary Clinton Diane Fienstein,  ? Pelosi and many, many more of that ilk...

   I still believe that you and I could be good friends...just not talk politics..

    Hope to meet you at Syracuse, and perhaps swap a few "Marlin talk" yarns...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2004, 02:26:06 AM »
IRONGLOW. There ya go making sense again. POWDERMAN.  :)  :)  :eek:  :eek:
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline NYH1

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SUCKERS FOR JESUS
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2004, 07:50:53 AM »
Quote from: ironglow
NY Hunter;
   I know you lean a bit more to the left than I do...which is not at all difficult.
Maybe just a little!

Quote from: ironglow
   You have always been an "up front" guy though, so I respect you for that..
And I "GREATLY" respect you too!

 
Quote from: ironglow
Nevertheless, I have a bit of disagreement with your reply that I will list below:
ironglow, you can disagree with me when ever you feel like doing so. I have learned a lot from our disagreements and that the truth, really it is! :grin:

   
Quote from: ironglow
How about a guy that tries to convince us that HE invented the internet?
You have to admit ironglow, that was pretty funny. I remember almost falling out of my chair laughing when I opened the paper that morning! :-D

 

 
Quote from: ironglow
  Clearly though , I noticed you didn't address other points I brought up, and WHO backs them.. such as:

   Political correctness (thought police)

   Perverts privileges

   Providing funds to perverted artists..
   ( I am an artist, and I don't believe in govt funding of art.)

   Candidates that insist "life begins at conception", then allows for killing the little boy or girl WHILE they're being born!
  (A man that does that Must be either a LIAR or a sociopath!)

   Affirmative action....(preference based upon race)

  Tort reform...(the Dems ticket has an "ambulance chaser" as veep.)

  The "divide and conquer" syndrome ( or scheme)

   Last; but certainly not least  The Second Amendment..
   On one side, the likes of George Bush, R.Reagan, Charlton Heston, Dick Army and Tom Delay etc etc
I agree with you on these things!


 
Quote from: ironglow
I still believe that you and I could be good friends...just not talk politics..
I'm sure we could be good friend too, I kind of feel that we are friends now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have strong opinions on things that matter to you or that you believe in, and you'll stand toe to toe with anyone that tries to tell you different. I like that in a man or woman.

   
Quote from: ironglow
Hope to meet you at Syracuse, and perhaps swap a few "Marlin talk" yarns...
I hope so too!!!
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Online ironglow

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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2004, 08:41:23 AM »
NY Hunter;
  If you do get to the fair, to find the blacksmith shop, you must first find the antique carriage museum.
  The blacksmith shop is located all the way in the rear of the carriage museum...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2004, 11:50:27 AM »
If there are any libertarians or constitutionalists left in the Republican Party (which I kinda doubt), it is they who are the suckers. The GOP sold them out years ago.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline mag41vance

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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2004, 03:19:57 PM »
This article is another example of a professional window shopper that never purchases a single item they criticize, so they have no true knowledge of the subject matter.
 When I seek advice on reloading bullets, I never look for Ted Kennedy's advice. I ask Leftover DJ, or jeff223, or jph45, or Marv, or you get the picture.
  Only a follower of Jesus Christ can understand what motivates the believer.
  I find most opinions of Christians from non-believers to be based on stereotypes they choose to embrace. Shallow!! Very Shallow!
 vANCe
no x now!

Offline powderman

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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2004, 03:49:47 PM »
MAG41VANCE. Amen brother. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Online ironglow

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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2004, 04:25:31 PM »
MAG41VANCE;

   Add to that another AAAAAMMMMEEEENNNN!!!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2004, 02:01:28 AM »
Quote from: mag41vance
When I seek advice on reloading bullets, I never look for Ted Kennedy's advice. I ask Leftover DJ, or jeff223, or jph45, or Marv
Dali Llama say that Leftoverdj apparently be font of knowledge on many subjects, not exclusively limited to gay "marriage"  :roll: and rights  :roll: of homosexuals. :-)  :-)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk