Revolver Inspections at the store

[pathfinder74]

I was told over in AR15.com to check this forum out for revolver advice, particularly Taurus. Judging by what I've read thus far you guys are far more versed on wheel guns that I am. The only experience I've had with them is shooting my father's Ruger Blackhawk when I was a kid. Up to this point I have been more of a semi-auto pistol kinda guy, but recently I have seen some revolvers catch my eye and the price seems reasonable on the couple of Tauruses (or is the plural of Taurus Tauri?  :wink: ) I saw at a gun show.

Anywho, this is what I'm wondering.

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
If you want to hear the heartache and headache on Taurus Revolvers go to Graybeard Outdoors Forum...it won't take you long to understand what I am trying to relate.

MT,

Just signed up on GBO (thanks for pointing me there) and read the thread about GB returning his twice. What a mess.

If/when I go to the gun store/show looking to buy, what are some things I should be looking for when I am handling the revolver?

I have heard a few "terms" already that I'm not familiar with on GB since my knowledge of revolver anatomy is seriously lacking:

- "the crane was free to move forward and allow the cylinder to hit the rear of the barrel"
- "With hammer back you can barel detect the slightest bit of side to side play'
- "cylinder felt kind of sloppy but it might lock up fine when it counts"
- "visable drag marks on the cylinder"
- "barrel cylinder gap"
- "misaligned cylinders"
- "poor cylinder latch"
- "end shake"
- "timing issue"

Care to fill in the gaps for me?

Thanks.

ETA: I never realized that revolvers could have such serious QC issue. I always figured after a couple hundred years of making them they would have gotten it down to a science by now. What gives?

[unspellable]

Different makes have different characteristics on some of these points.

I would:

First make DAMN sure it's unloaded then:

1. Check for cylinder end play by moving the cylinder fore and aft while closed.  The amount of movement should be barely perceptable if at all.  (0.002 max)

2. Tight lock up.  This is the biggest variable from make to make and model to model.  With the cylinder closed, cock the gun and let the hammer down slowly while holding the trigger back then roatae the cylinder from side to side.  On a Mark VI Webley there should be zero play, it should feel spot welded in place.  On most other makes there will normally be some play so it's a question of what's excessive.

3. Timing.  While applying light drag to the cylinder rotation cock the revolver.  The cylinder should lock in place.  If it locks after you take your finger off and give it a tiny nudge it's a bit out of time.  If it takes more than a very tiny movement it's grossly out of time.

4. Alignment.  With the revolver cocked shine a pen light down the barrel and look for the edges of the chamber mouth.  If you can see an edge it's out of alignment.

5. Cylinder gap.  This is the small gap between the front of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel.  Optimum gap varys depending on the purose the gun is used for.  For target or hunting it should ideally be from 0.003 to 0.006 inch.  For serious self defense it should be from 0.005 to 0.007.  (To avoid jamming up from a bit of crud.)  Some manufactures allow up to 0.010 inch.  This is measured with a feeler gauge.  It can be a bit deceiving if you try to eyeball it.  A secondary issue is cylinder run out.  This means the cylinder gap should not perceptably vary as you rotate the cylinder.

6. Forcing cone.  This is the area at the rear of the barrel where the bullet enters the barrel from the cylinder.  No cracks of any kind allowed.  If there is a build up of copper or lead that is only on one side of the forcing cone (top, bottom, left, or right) check again for chamber alignment.

Chamber throat diameter.  The chamber throat diameter should be 0.0005 to 0.001 inch larger than the barrel groove diameter.  Too small is worse than too big, it will degrade accuracy.  If too small it can be reamed out to the correct size.

This is only a few points but it will get you started.

[pathfinder74]

Wow... that is what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch. I'll have to try some of it out in the store... I don't think I'm going to be bringing any gauges/instruments in with me... just eyeballing, but it sounds like most of that can bedone without having an engineering degree.

Thanks.

[papajohn428]

Pathfinder, I've been around revolvers for about thirty years, and I still got burned recently with a Taurus.  The fit and finish was excellent, the best I've ever seen on a Taurus.  Everything locked uo tight, endshake and cylinder play was not a problem, and the price was right.  I jumped on it, took it home and giggled.

Then I shot it, and the bubble burst.  Two feet low and left at 25 yards, with every load I tried, six or seven, at least.  

So look for a good used one, and make sure the sale is contingent on being able to test-fire it!  Taking along some folks better-versed in revolvers might also be a good idea, so you don't pay too much for what you get.  My grandfather giggles every time he shows me a 38 Rossi he paid 75 bucks for.  The sad fact is, he got ripped off!  I hope he never has to shoot it!

PJ

[crawfish]

I have two Taurus .41RemMag revolvers (had three up until about a month ago traded off one (415SH2C) for some camera stuff) a 416SS6 and a 425SH4C. Both are fine wheel guns. Haven’t had any problems in the least with either. The RB eats my hunting loads with out a belch and the Tracker is my primary carry gun. The only reason I traded the 2-inch Titanium gun was because it’s bark really was unpleasant in the extreme. Much of what you will hear about (insert name here) on these boards is the same kind of stuff you hear about Ford/Chevy. There are some posters who will bad mouth a brand on hearsay or product prejudice. I’ll be the first to admit that in any large volume production there is bound to be some product that is less than the norm.  I may be unusually lucky in that I have always been able to get Barnes X bullets to shoot real well, have never gotten a “bad” anything (some did not suit me but none was ever trash) and by “mistake” I bought a .41RemMag instead of a .44RemMag as my first hunting handgun. :wink:

[Old Griz]

:cb2: My past experience with Taurus has only confrimed in my mind, when buying a hand gun--especially a revolver--make sure it says, "MADE IN U.S.A."  on it somewhere.

[TScottO]

It’s depressing to see the quality of some guns on the market these days. All companies I have purchased from, be it an auto or a revolver have had lesser quality parts and components than I felt my money deserved. One thing that is different amongst people that frequent these forms is that we probably shoot more on average than a normal gun owner. One of the gun manufactures, I don’t remember which, did a study on how many times a particular gun is shot during its life time. The average was somewhere around 700-800 rounds per handgun. This stat took into consideration those of us who shoot 30k rounds/year vs those of us who shoot 10 out of a 20 count box then save the other 10 to keep the gun loaded. It would make since for gun manufactures to build guns to meet this average demand other than to meet the quality it would take for every gun to survive 30k rounds.

Two of the last three new revolvers I have purchased have had quality issues. One was a SW 640. I dry fired this gun a few times only to have the thing jam up. Come to find out the internal parts were never lubricated at the factory. The second one was a performance center 686 in 38 super. There was an un-machined portion where the hammer strikes preventing the proper amount of firing pin protrusion to reliably set off a round.

Maybe I have bad luck?

Anyway, here is a good article on checking out a used revolver if you are interested.

http://thesixgunjournal.com/a_revolverbuyer.htm

Be Safe,
Scott

[IndianaDean]

Pathfinder I still got burned recently with a Taurus.  The fit and finish was excellent, the best I've ever seen on a Taurus.  Everything locked uo tight, endshake and cylinder play was not a problem, and the price was right.  I jumped on it, took it home and giggled.

PJ

My experience was similar. Bought a brand new ported 617. First time I fired it, the cylinder continually locked up and would not rotate.

Taurus' are the only revolvers I've ever had problems with. I have owned or fired Rugers, S&W's (my favorites), Colts and an Astro 960 .38 special I bought at a gun show that I've read was never imported into the US. All of these, whether they were used or new, have performed flawlessly. Not so with the Taurus.

[Graybeard]

For darn sure if it's a Taurus look down the barrel with a good light. If the barrel isn't clean enough insist it be cleaned so you can tell what it is you're seeing. Both of my last two new Taurus revolvers have had major interior barrel problems. The M44 was so bad it tossed bullets sideways thru the target at 25 yards rather than nose forward. The M460 photo is on the Taurus forum somewhere in my thread on it. What the heck, here it is.



Also on any used revolver look for cracks at the corners of the frame. Got burned on this one once on a Dan Wesson and that's about as strong a gun as any of them.