Any T/C White Mountain Carbine shooters out there?

[Jerry/PA]

Hi all;

I'm looking for any T/C White Mountain shooters out there.

(The T/C White Mountain has a 21" barrel with, I think, a 1 in 32 or 38 twist.)

I met a fellow who has one.  His is a common story, he got it a couple of years ago, couldn't get any accuracy out of it, and stuck it in the closet.

At the range today, he watched me shooting a 2" group at 75 yards with my frontstuffer and couldn't believe that muzzleloaders could do that!

I offered to meet up with him sometime in the next few weeks and help him work up a load for his rifle.

While I realize that every rifle is different, I'd like to start out with some ideas about what his rifle will probably like.  I think I can pull him into our sport if I can show him some accuracy.  It will be a lot easier if I can go into it with some ideas and maybe find a good load quickly.

I have a lot of different patching thicknesses, Roundball, and various Maxiballs.  I have Goex 2F and 3F on hand.

So if anyone has a White Mountain and can make it shoot well, I'm all ears hoping for advice!

Regards,

Jerry

[lostid]

Jerry/Pa , good job,, I've tried the same thing  myself umpteen tymes, and won a few over too. The tough part your gonna face with this feller is the "carbine" style fast twist just, ain't made fer anything but a "brush gun"! It just plain and simple weren't made for over 50yrds accuracy.

 Maybe sum others will kick in here , but the best bet is to try some short conicals for the caliber like, REAL, Ballets, or your guys PA conical,,short fast and close==="carbine". Accuracy in them things "IS" a lube issue.

[quickdtoo]

I have 3 of the short barreled cabelas carbines that are similar to the white mt carbine, same twist rate, IIRC. I shoot both the harvester 400gr hard cast sabot and also cast bullets from lyman 457122(330gr hp) and 457124(385grRN) molds sized to .452 in sabots. They shoot 1.5"-2" groups at 100yds with 110grs 2f goex. I added receiver sights to them and it made a big difference over using the open iron sights on them, longer sight radius and better sights too.  hth

[Jerry/PA]

Hi Quickdtoo;

If you have three of the same rifle, that speaks volumes about how well you must like them!

If your rifles are the same twist rate, then what exactly is the twist of the White Mountain Carbine?  We know it's fast, but we don't know exactly what it is.

Have you chosen the 110 grains of goex 2F because it's the most accurate, or because it is a MAX?  (I don't want to beat this fellow up with recoil any more than necessary... remember, I'm trying to draw him into the sport.  His initial experience was that he bought the rifle a few years ago, took it out once, couldn't get any kind of accuracy, put it in the closet and forgot about it.)

How about patched roundball  in this rifle.  Have you been able to do anything with RB, or does this fast twist prevent accuracy with RB?  Any tricks you've learned along this line?

Thanks in advance,

Jerry.

[quickdtoo]

Hi Jerry,

Well, my memory has failed me again!  :oops: I double checked the twist on these rifles, it's 1-24", not the 1-32" I thought they were, so much for the comparison, looks like the only similarity is the short barrel and ignition. I did a google search and didn't find the twist rate for the white mountain carbine, maybe someone will check in and post the real twist for it, or you can check it with a tight fitting patch on a jag by running the patch to the breech and marking the ramrod so you can see when it rotates one half turn as you draw it out of the barrel, then measure the distance you moved it and double the figure for the twist rate. If the twist is in the 1-48" zone, it should shoot round balls good if the rifling is deep enough. The rifling on mine are real shallow, so I never tried round ball in em and the twist is too fast to allow for hunting energy with round balls as the ball will skip in the rifling and be inaccurate when pushed faster. I shoot that load because it's accurate in the rifles, 120gr being the max recommended by the mfr. and I hunted elk with em the last time I used em. I have 3 because my dad and son also hunt with em but wouldn't buy blackpowder guns, so I bought em for em to get em to hunt with me!  If your twist rate is quicker than the 1-48", it should shoot the shorter heavy bullets just fine.   It may just take some range work to find bullets and a charge that it likes. I would think that it should shoot the TC conicals fairly well, so if you have them, I would work up a load with them first. I'd start with 80gr 2f and work up in 5 gr increments, has always worked for me. Another option would be Powerbelt bullets, they shoot real good in my black diamonds and load real easy, are kind of a cross between a conical and a saboted bullet but are bore size. If recoil becomes an issue, I highly recommend the Sims Limbsaver recoil pads, they are the best pads out there and really take the kick out of heavy kickers. I have em on all my black diamonds and my 835 ultimag, they make a world of difference in recoil.

Good luck,    Tim

[Snowshoe]

I have the Black Powder Loading Manual, by Sam Fadala and I checked and found that it has a twist of 1 in 20". He has target loads of 70, 80, and 90g of FFG and a 385g Hornady Great Plains bullet. A freind of mine has this rifle, and he shoots 60g of Pyrodex RS, a .490 RB and .15 th pillow ticking patch and Wonderlube. He has taken many whitetails with this load, but all shots are 60 yards or less. He has tried using bullets, but the recoil was more than he wanted. I would try using a sabot and 250g bullet, if recoil is an problem.

[Hopalong7]

If I'm not badly mistaken( and I'm seem to be more and more these days ), TC made the WMC in several different rates of twist.  Mine is 1-20",but I'm pretty sure there are some with 1-48" and maybe some more somwhere in between.  Mine shoots saboted pistol bullets real well and also the lightest weight Maxi-Hunter in .50.
GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt  :grin:

[Jerry/PA]

Thanks fellows;

I got a lot of information about the T/C White Mountain Carbines...

I have what I think will be the best approach.

First, since it seems that T/C made this rifle in just about every twist rate under the sun, so first thing I'll do is I'll find out what his rifle is!

Second, if it's 1:48, I'll try to find a roundball load for him.  I have an assortment of patches in various thickness that I'll take to the range that day.  I've found roundball loadings for several rifles, so I know what to do here.

Third, if it's 1:24 or 1:38, which are also often cited twists, I'll get into my assortment of T/C Maxiballs and Maxihunters.  I'll also stop by the local sports shop and pick up some Hornady Great Plains conicals, as a number of the WMC's out there seem to do well with them.

I'll find the best load I can for him that day, and then I'll mention that T/C does make an aperature sight that he can order if he want to.

Who knows, maybe I can show him some accuracy and draw him into our sport!

Wish me luck!

Ironsights Jerry.

[1860]

I'm a little late here but I have and love a WMC.  According to T/C, there are only 2 twist rates, early guns had 1:20 and later guns had 1:38.  What works in your gun depends on the twist rate you have.  

Mine is 1:20 and as mentioned above, sabots work really well, short/light conicals do not, longer ones are OK but kick the snot out of you with hunting loads.  I've also worked up the 1:38 guns, T/C came out with them because the 1:20 guns were real fussy about what they shot well and were not popular.  The 1:38 guns will shoot a wide variety of conicals well, sabot also work, The Buffalow Balletts, lighter ones work real well.  

Roundballs work in the 1:38s with reduced loads, I only tried one in my 1:20 twist and it missed the backstop.

These little guns were never real popular, heavy recoil, fussy accuracy and the comming of Inlines doomed them.  For me, I'd rather carry that little carbine than any gun I own, including CF.  Just one great handling little gun.

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