Which 5 12ga Shells to Carry on an all purpose pack gun?

[HuntenNut]

Ok, you may have read my post about building a compact pack utility gun from my Pardner 12ga after I get my Topper Deluxe Classic. Assuming I carry 5 shells on the stock, what should they be?

I will be carrying on backpack trips in Northern MI.  Primary concern would be 2 legged type. Next comes bears ( very far behind the 2 legged). 3rd would be invading scavengers mainly coons (I once had to toss my dinner to a pack of angry coons who were closing in on my Mountain House freeze dried Beef Stroganoff after beating the ground with hiking stick failed to intimidate them). A very distant last would be to shoot a meal, but this won't be carried in hunting season, so I wouldn't see the need for this unless in dire straights.

I was thinking of 2 dangerous game slugs for the people and the bears, 2 00 buck for the coons and as a back up for the people and the bears, and a single 3" #4 heavy game load for dire straights (the barrel will be cut down so there will be no choke) and as a back up for the people and the bears and the coons (I realize it would't be wise against the bear, but if I hitem with 2 slugs and 2 00 buck and he's still coming, I'm in trouble)

[MSP Ret]

3 #000 buck, 1 slug (just for kicks) and a #6 for food....<><.... :grin:

[IntrepidWizard]

Good choice,I was going to say 1 slug,2 00, and2#5's

[HuntenNut]

MSP,

Why the 000 vs 00 buck? This will be in an unchocked barrel.

Also, I figured that the #4 would be more versatile than the #6 for a meal getter. Why do you prefer the #6?

[MSP Ret]

For a defense load that is meant to kill the attacker and that attacker may be a bear the #000, which is heavier, and I have found it to group smaller. Since it is heavier, penetrates further (important) and larger It retains more kinetic energy per pellet, even if there are less of them. I like the #6 because of the greater number of pellets and denser pattern. In my mind a better chance of the "meal" being struck rather than slipping away by being in a "hole" in the pattern. I am thinking your "meal" may be nothing larger than a duck, squirrrel, rabbit or partridge. It's important they are struck and you recover them. Would you normally hunt those with #4 shot?....<><.... :grin:

As an aside, If what I were protecting myself against were men I might  stay with #00 but more than likely go to #1 or even as far down as #4 buckshot. Defense only shots are taken at short range, long range and it's not defense but offense. With man targets disabling is enough, once they cannot use weapons and you can you are in charge. With wild animals you better kill them quick, if you don't they keep coming and they need no weapons to easily kill or maim you....And bu the way if you have never seen what a shotgun with #7 1/2 can do to a person a short range (a few feet) believe me, I have and it's not pretty, one big hole, just like a slug....  :cry:

[HuntenNut]

Ok, I'll go with the 000 instead of the 00. Like I said, number 1 threat is 2 legged, number 2 is bears which are way behind 2 legged, but if it comes down to it, would rather be overgunned with the humans than undergunned with the bears. Actually, the coons are probably a bigger threat than the bears. They will come right into your camp sometimes if they smell food.

I was going with #4 same reason that you went with 000. More power albeit lower pellet count. Could be used for a big goose or turkey (which we have lots of in MI), as well as a squirrel or rabbit. Anyway, I don't see myself having to shoot a meal as I carry extra food on pack trips for safety. Only thing I could see is if I fell and broke a leg in which case I couldn't hunt anyway, or if I got extremely lost..

[scruffy]

On the gun, 3-00 or 000 buck, 2-brenneke slugs designed for bear.  I'd have a box of 1/2 #6 and 1/2 #4's in my pack for food gathering and varmints, as well as more buckshot and slugs.  I'd use the #4 for varmints like raccoons and such and the #6's for rabbits and squirrels, same as I do on the farm.

later,
scruffy

[HuntenNut]

Sruffy,

You are limited to 5 shells for this thought experiment, so you'll have to pick #4 or #6.

This is for backpacking OUTSIDE of hunting season, so the foodgetter would only be for emergency use. Also, since you are backpacking which means every once counts, you can't carry extra boxes of shells in your pack--too much weight.

[MSP Ret]

HuntenNut, How about #6 in 3" Hevishot, that would give you pellet count and penetration. And since these are emergency/self protection rounds go to the 3" or 3.5" 12 gauge buckshot rounds, after the first shot would most probably not need another. And for the same reason if you did go with a slug or 2, I would go with the 3" Brenneke shotgun slug, NOT a sabot, a nice big 1 1/8 oz. or 1 1/4 oz. with a nice big meplat that would hit like a train at short range and knock whatever it hit backwards and onto it's butt or beyond!!!.. And don't worry about recoil, if you have ever fired a shot at game or in combat or any other live or death situation you know that recoil or any memory of is non-existent!!!....<><.... :grin:

[scruffy]

Sruffy,

You are limited to 5 shells for this thought experiment, so you'll have to pick #4 or #6.

This is for backpacking OUTSIDE of hunting season, so the foodgetter would only be for emergency use. Also, since you are backpacking which means every once counts, you can't carry extra boxes of shells in your pack--too much weight.

For this thought experiment I'd leave the shotgun at home.  If I were that worried about weight that I couldn't put 10 to 20 rounds in my pack I wouldn't be carrying a 4 to 5 pound shotgun around that I only had 5 rounds for.

Instead of lugging around a 5lb shotgun and 5 shots I think I'd do better to carry a small frame 44 mag revolver, 2 loaded speed loaders and 6 loose rounds to load in revolver when you start your hike, a GPS with extra batteries (so I didn't get lost), maybe a few color pictures of edible plants, and a map.  And I'd still save a couple pounds of weight off my pack and greatly increased the ease of carry and handyness of weapon over carrying a 5lb shotgun.

If you don't need the shotgun's extra fire power over a 44 mag revolver then the shotgun is too heavy of a weapon for this application, take a revolver.  If you plan on needing the shotgun's extra power over the revolver take the shotgun and take 5 shells on the gun and 10 to 20 in your pack.  If you need the shotguns extra firepower you have to have something to feed it, otherwise it's a 5lb walking stick.

For this thought exercise that is what I would do.

And if you try and box in my answer again I'll give you another thinking outside the box answer.  Thinking inside the box won't get you out of the box later when you're in trouble.

later,
scruffy

[HuntenNut]

Heres are the reasons to carry the shotgun:

1) I already own it and if I was gonna spend money on another gun, I've got many more on the list in front of 44 mag revolver.

2) Getting the Topper Deluxe Classic and hate selling old guns or having gun that doesn't serve a purpose (see my other post titled "What to do with your old Pardner/Topper once you get your Topper Dluxe Classic"), therefore, would be a fun "project" with at least some potential use other than a backup or loaner gun.

2) Revolvers are light but must be aimed perfectly, hard to do with an armed assailant or a bear comin at ya

3) The shotgun is much more versatile for only a small cost in weight--try shooting a squirrel with that ultralight 44mag (I figure by cutting the barrel and the stock down to min legal length, could get the gun under 4lbs)

4) and most importantly, its fun to sit around and narrow down the best 5 rounds to carry if you could only have 5. Kinda like which 5 guns would you own if you could only have 5.

[Ambushhunter]

HuntinNut, There's the answer to your other thread!  After you use your 5 shots,  chuck the gun into the river and lighten your backpacking load!

[gwhilikerz]

All this thinking is making  my head hurt :-D

[Markus]

3 3"000 and 2 3"no. 6 hevi-shot. The triple will take care of man and bear at short gun last ditch defense range and also be more useful for foraging should that become necesary. The 6s in hevi shot will give as much knockdown as the no.4s and have a denser pattern/higher pellet count. I used to spend a lot of time up in the mountains in Colorado and always drug along my 870 with a smooth bore slug barrel and five 000 for what ever might pay an unwanted visit. If I was in Alaska I'd probably trade the 000 for some heavy slugs. MSP Is right about small shot at close range. Saw this a few times as an MP. Really ugly. I forget the term for it but I've heard storys about strategicaly cutting the shell between the powder and shot to improvise a slug. I don't think wou could do it very quickly though and I wouldn't try it. When I go out to my place in the country now I take a Topper and usualy a couple 00. We don't have any large carnivors here and if there is more than 3 rabbid foxes or coons I guess I'd have to beat them to death. I could take one of my pistols but I just like caryin the topper.It feels right in my hands and my woods.

[MSP Ret]

Markus that term for cutting around the shell almost all the way through the case (paper or plastic) just below the shot was called "ringing" the shell and it was used as I have heard for 2 reasons, poachers would use it so they would not be caught with a slug in prohibited areas and firstly I heard it was used as an inexpensive alternative to slugs for close shots by persons who could not afford slugs....<><.... :grin: