NEF .357 observations

[Paul5388]

I was asked for a summary of what I had learned from my ongoing "experiments" with the .357 Mag Handi rifle on another forum.  It may be of interest to some of you as well.

After all of this "experimenting", the loads my Handi likes best are:

10.0 gr SR 4756 with 125 gr Golden Saber, CCI 500, .38 Special brass. (1600+ fps) Seated just forward of the driving band.

The 170 gr Dry Creek Bullets Keith designed LSWC, with 13.5 gr 2400, CCI 500, in .38 Special brass at 1700 fps is showing good potential. Seated in the crimping groove.

7.5 gr 800X, 250 gr Beartooth LFNGC, CCI 400, .357 brass, seated in the crimping groove (this is probably too long for a lever gun and needs to be worked on in .38 Special brass for that application). (1200 fps)

11.0 gr 800X, 180 gr Hornady XTP/HP seated in the top cannelure, CCI 550, .360 DW Starline brass. 1645 fps

I have been using a Caldwell rest with the molded front rest and I am switching to a Winchester with a regular bag for front support. I think the groups will get a little better with better support from a bean bag type rest and that will help take some more of the human element out of the equation.

The micro groove barrel doesn't seem to like cast bullets at higher velocity, but shoots at around 1200 fps pretty well, i.e. the 250 gr Beartooth.

The 180 gr and up bullets seem to shoot better than 158 gr and lighter, which may be a quirk of my barrel, but I think it is a micro groove thing.

The 180 gr Hornady XTP/HP seems to shoot very well, but I'm using .360 DW brass with it and that won't fit your lever gun. I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in groups when using PSP bullets.

My Handi rifle seems to like a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp, which isn't a problem with a single shot rifle.

The micro groove barrel, as provided by NEF, seems to take quite a bit of shooting to "break in".

The micro groove barrel won't shoot very hard cast bullets well, probably due to the shallow grooves not "gripping/engraving" the bullet well. I am basing this observation on the very hard Oregon Trail Laser Cast 158 gr that is showing tendencies toward key holing.

Rifle bullets of .358" can be used, but the extra cost doesn't seem to be justified by any better accuracy than a .357" pistol bullet. There is also the concern of bullet upset, since the velocity may not be enough to allow proper upset with a rifle bullet that has thicker jacket material.

Lil'Gun gave pretty good velocities, but didn't seem to group as well as IMR 4227 and 800X. Now that the barrel is broken in a little better, it may be worthwhile to revisit Lil'Gun.

The NEF barrel seems to like a little fouling from the powder/bullet combination instead of being clean or having residue from another powder/bullet combination.

There are probably more observations that could be made, I just can't remember right now!

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1061&PN=1&get=last#36779

[mag41vance]

I'm hoping the break-in thing is true. I'm hoping my barrel will tighten up with age.

[Leftoverdj]

A few more observations.

1200 fps does seem to be about the limit of accuracy with plain base cast bullets in NEF barrels. Relatively soft bullets; i.e., air cooled WW are called for. In my .45-70s, 50/50 WW/lead gives the best accuracy. I have not worked with this alloy in other calibers.

MUCH higher velocities with excellent accuracy are possible with gas checked bullets and very hard bullets. My .25-06 shoots 100 grain cast GCs at 2300 fps better than any jacketed load I have tried. My Maxed .357 typically shoots about 5/8" 50 yard groups at nearly 2000 fps with 180 GCs.

Cast bullets for microgroove barrels must be well over nominal diameter. I size bullets for the Max to .360 and for the .45-70, I shoot as cast, around .460-.461. My microgroove Marlin .44 Mag gets bullets sized to a bit over .431 and I had to lap out a sizer to get that.

Any copper fouling in the barrel will open up groups with cast bullets. I have noticed that this effect is worst right after the change and gradually lessens as I shoot. Changes in lube also seem to have an effect, just as you noted. I don't think it is the powder or the bullet, just the lube.

You are gonna have to be mighty lucky to get very far with commercial cast bullets in the NEF barrel. They are almost always too small, too hard, and lubed with crappy lube.

[Paul5388]

DJ,

Of course you are right about the sizing.  I forgot to mention the Beartooth is a .359" bullet and the other commercial stuff is .358", including a Dry Creek 170 gr Keith LSWC, a 163 gr Lee gas check from Dry Creek and a 158 gr Oregon Trail Laser Cast.  The Beartooth 250 gr. is a gas checked bullet.

I haven't done any casting since the '80's, but it looks like I need to get back into it.

I wasn't aware there was a micro groove available for the .25-06.