Why all the wildcats?

[Hunter Mann]

As I am new to this forum and Thompson Pistols, I have spent a few hours just reading through some of the posts.

This question is killing me......Besides the fact that it's just so damn cool and easy with a Thompson, why does it seem like you all shoot one wildcat round or another? It doesn't sound like anyone is shooting factory calibers.

Is that because most of you handload, or do you gain something (other than machismo) from the various wildcats? Talked to a guy who swore by the .309 JDJ.........said he could take that round with him anywhere in North America.

I reminded him that the beauty of a Thompson is being able to swap barrels, and he looked at me like I insulted his Harley.  

Just kind of curious.

[onesonek]

It's the "Just Cuz"  factor :wink:  Macho never reallly entered my mind

[Hopalong7]

Hunter Mann, Good question.  First of all, welcome to a great forum and the world of Contenders/Encores.  Now to your question.
1.  The Contender/Encore lends itself to custom barrels...rechambering moreso than any firearm I can think of.
2. Yes gains can be realized.  You mentioned the 309JDJ.  there has never been and I'd venture to say never will be a factory chambering for the Contender that can compare to its performance. Whoops, I forgot the 375JDJ just went factory didn't it.  Oh well, What do I know.
3. Probably more than anything else, we enjoy traveling unworn paths.  The fact that we go around hunting/shooting with a single shot pistol should indicate that we're off the beaten path to start with.

 Anyway, hang on...join in....and enjoy.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt  

[KYODE]

reloading man.....reloading :wink:  after ya start reloading, you are not restricted to factory calibers. most of the wildcats are not much harder to reload than a factory case.
it opens a whole new world of powerful cartridges for the contender especially. the contender is kinnda limited in what is factory offered.
then there's the fun of playing, and experimenting with new things.

yeah,.......the beauty of the TC's is being able to change barrels :shock: ........er maybe the beauty is being able to have a scope n barrel fer each frame :shock: .......er maybe the beauty is the seemingly never ending calibers available at your desire :shock: .........er maybe they are just beautiful :wink:    :lol:  

[skb2706]

Ok I 'm still trying to figure out what part of this is the "machismo" part as virtually nobody but my son and the few associates that understand guns know that I load for wildcat cartridges and most of them don't have a clue.  But aside from that there are alot of calibers that were "left out" by factory and "standard" chamberings. Try to locate a long list of chamberings for a Contender in the following calibers.
6mm, .25 cal., 6.5 mm, 7mm (besides Waters which is nearly a wildcat anymore) and so on. The point being that the gun has huge potential but was hugely lacking in availability. Not everybody was happy with a .223, 7-30 Waters, 30-30, .375 Win (try to find ammo for that at Walmart) and .35 Rem.
 
I also happen to believe that working with wildcat cartridges teaches you some things about handloading you will not learn anywhere else. Case forming, headspace calculations and corrections, load development (something besides reading a book and copying info).

[rickyp]

a couple of reasons I love wildcats

1) IF a barrel is stolen it is easy to ID, The gun stores around me will  take the information on a stolen firearm and if someone comes in with it they will call the police. Just think about some POS walking in to a gun store with a Contender in 309 jdj and asking for a box of ammo

2) A wildcat is a way of getting a level of performance out of a contender that would otherwise be unattainable from a factory round.

3) and it is just fun to have something different.

[flyfisher]

1)  fun to reload (plus it gives you some time away from the wife for a few hours)
2) wildcats are just plain cool and unique, just like their owners
3)  wildcats give you the opportunity to "fill in the gaps"; you're not limited to only factory loads or calibers
4) you can load to your own specifications (heavier or lighter bullets, etc.) that are not available at the local gun places; not limited to some company's available loads
5) I suppose that there is some degree of "manlyness" to using wildcats as well

[skb2706]

.......yep I can see it now ........the same POS walks in to Walmart and asks some pencil neck behind the counter for a box of 6mm 30-30 AI rounds for his new rifle.

[Javelina]

Hello Hunter Mann,

You ask why there are so many wildcats in the T/C world.  We own and shoot T/C's for many reasons, probably in the neighborhood of one to two million at least!   :grin:

I think if the truth be told, that generally we shoot T/C's because they are the road less traveled.  We like showing up the rifle guys at the range, we like the rakish look of a Contender or Encore, we like the incredible flexibility that Warren Center built into each of our guns, we like the individualism and custom nature that we can each bestow on our T/C's by chambering for or inventing a wildcat caliber for our pistols, we like the satisfaction of trying and succeeding to make our guns a little bit better or more unique than the next guy's, and most of all, we like the fact that in doing all these things differently and individually - that it makes us all the same and we have our own fraternity of T/C shooters who tend to stick together.  It's a T/C thang, my brother!   :grin:

Safe and good shooting to you!  

Javelina

[BruceP]

skb2706 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject:  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
.......yep I can see it now ........the same POS walks in to Walmart and asks some pencil neck behind the counter for a box of 6mm 30-30 AI rounds  
 

The sad part of this is that there is about a 90% chance that the guy behind the counter will start looking on the shelves for the ammo and when he can't find it will offer to special order some.
BruceP

[Questor]

The reason for all the wildcats and proprietary cartriges is that the Contender doesn't handle many rifle calibers, and those it does support tend to be unsuitable hunting big game at ranges beyond about 100 yards. The conspicuous exception to this rule is the 7x30 Waters.  

A few good wildcats and proprietary cartridges emerged during the 1970s, and that was enough. But the guys who developed them just kept on developing, mostly because they were in the business of selling barrels and dies and they needed more product variations to stay in business.  There really hasn't been much real progress since the 6.5JDJ and 375JDJ, and maybe the 309JDJ.

In the Encore, wildcats and proprietary cartridges are just an affectation because you can get barrels for production rifle cartridges.

[Mirage]

Have a .250 Ackley bbl. due 1 month from Bullberry. Reasons why:

1. I like to acquire reloading accessories (need new dies).

2. Case trimming, pocket uniforming, flash deburring, weighing / sorting
    cases and indexing have become routine, I need to add fireforming to
    the routine.

3. The 40 deg. shoulders and short, fat cases look way cool, particularly
    when people @ the range don't know what you are doing and see a
    strange looking / diff. case come out of the chamber from what went
    in, confuses people.

4. Every should own an Ackley wildcat, or at least admit they would.

5. Will give me excuse to buy a chronograph to work up loads with
    confidence (more gadgets).

[Javelina]

Hey Mirage,

I like how you think!   :grin:  

What he said!

Javelina

[mudriver]

I just recently decided to try wildcatting with a simple chambering - the 30-30 Ackley.  I did it basically because I wanted to be able to take deer out to 200 yards and this cartridge appears to be the best suited for the task.  I will say that I've enjoyed the experience and am interested in trying another wildcat round.

Of course it's fun to outshoot my various friends bolt action hunting rifles as well as get better power than my dad's 30-30 with this round.  But then again, most of my friends have Harley's and I still drive my Ninja.  Guess we just like to be different.

[cbagman]

Why wildcats?? Why not!.. The main reason is better performance.. Maybe about 10% safe velocity increase and better accuracy.. It is strickly a reloaders world for the most part and a challange to boot. No Macho thing for me, just better performance and maybe a challange as well.. Many of my "wildcat" chamberings were bought on line with dies included and the cost was not more than a T/C factory barrel. Case life is "probably" longer in the improved chamberings. The ones off the .307 and .356 Win case and the .444 cases have longer life as the brass is thicker.   from cbagman

[Graybeard]

I only own ONE TC barrel that isn't a full fledged wildcat. That's my old 7-30 which is a Federal Factory round altho I've never fired a single factory round in the chambering in either of the two barrels I've owned. Likely have fired several thousands of rounds down those two tubes and narry a one a factory loaded round. All the rest are one breed or another of wild cat.

[flatlander]

I started reloading so that I could shoot spirepoint bullets in my 7-30 waters and extend its range out to 200 yards for deer hunting. Once I had the reloading equipment, new barrels weren't limited to what I could get factory ammo for, so I chose calibers that would do the job I wanted. Some of them are wildcats, some aren't. Plus you can pick up a standard caliber barrel and have it rechambered for something with higher performance for $80 or less at most places. You only job is to see if the improvement is worth it based on realistic performance of the round and your ability to shoot it. If you are going to shoot deer at 100 yards or less, there are several factory rounds that will do the job well, but if you are going to hunt larger game or shoot out in the 200 yard range, a wildcat may be you best bet.

[palgeno]

Handloading brings another dimension of enjoyment to the shooting sports. :grin: Custom ammo!!!!  Many standard caliber  barrels for T/Cs have chambers have throats which are longer than "standard"---true for custom barrels also---so to get better accuracy and velocity , hand loading will allow seating a bullet to an optimum length for your specific barrel. This most likely will result in a round too long to fit in the magazine of a factory gun. At this point you are already nearly handloading in wildcat territory----so one only needs to follow a few small detail steps to progress to true wildcats.   pg

[crawfish]

Two reasons for me. First I enjoy the attention that a Contender gets at the local range. If it shoots a "funny bullet" it is doubly so. I do have “standard” calibers but I shoot non-standard ammo. I know I have NEVER shot a round or flat point bullet from my 30-30 or 7X30Waters. I routinely shoot tracers from my .223Rem. Second the wildcats were purchased because I couldn’t find what I wanted in a “standard” caliber to do the job I had in mind. I’m almost sure I’m the only person in NC who owns a .411JDJ Contender and that is neat. If I’m not the only then I’m in excellent company.   :-D

[SD Handgunner]

Most of the topics as per why we shoot Wildcat Cartridges in our T/C's have been covered already. For me it is getting something I can not get off the shelf. The Wildcat Cartridges I shoot feature minimum body taper and sharp 40 degree shoulders. The qualities in a cartridge produce less force against the Contender Frame, and as such when loaded properly are safer. Also the improved shape produces less case stretch, as such saving us time trimming brass. Lastly I am learning that the improved shape of these minimum body taper, sharp shouldered cartridges burn the powder more efficiently as can be seem by the extreme spreads and standard deviations when chronographing a string of rounds.

Yea I could shoot a .30-30 Winchester instead of the .30-30 Ackley Improved I shoot, and in fact have. However the .30-30 AI provides an increase in velocity, an increase in accuracy, and stretches the cases less. As for the 6mm T/CU I shoot, to get a 6mm Cartridge in the Contender there is no other choice than Wildcat Cartridges.

I am fixing to build either a .223 Ackley Improved and or a .358 JDJ in the future. I could easily choose either a .223 Remington or a .35 Remington for either of these cartridges, but I have come to like the advantages of the Improved Case Design.

SD Handgunner

[Captainkev]

In addition to other barrels for my Encore, I shoot the 376 Steyr because although the 375 JDJ has killed just about everything short of a Teranasaurus Rex, the Steyr shoots just a bit faster and flatter.
Would the 375 JDJ have worked for out west hunting and for hogs.....................absolutely.
But..............to quote the great Tim Allen  "  I just needed a little more POWER"


Kevin

[EdK]

After all of the fine post I can still find one fact that's been left untouched:

The Contender is a product of the '60s where the Encore has been around less than 10 years now. Much of the wildcatting (e.g. JDJ's) was undertaken in order to milk more power from the Contender before the existence of the Encore which made high power possible using factory standard cartridges.