Author Topic: Smokeless ML barrel for Encore? (Read 2143 times)

Smokin54 · « **on:** January 11, 2003, 07:26:34 PM »

There are a number of people that are shooting smokeless powder in there guns intended for blackpowder only. Do they blow up ? only sometimes . Now you will hear from guys that have done it hundreds of times with no adverse affects .Will I try it ? I DONT THINK SO . Will you try it ? Thats up to you . It may just be that I am not to adventurious but the barrels on my blackpowder guns say USE BLACKPOWDER ONLY and that what I will do.
My personal Opinion is that there should NOT be a muzzleloader season , A primative season is a fine idea though.

cliffs · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2003, 10:19:11 AM »

:eek: Smokeless runs from 35000 to 50000 psi where black or pyro run 10000 to 15000. Mighty big difference eh? :eek: Can't remember if that's psi or cup but it don't make no difference. Triple charge that muzzle loader and see what happens. Same thing. The only company that makes a factory smokeless gun is Savage. I had one for a year and they work but you have to be pretty competent to make them work right. They are not dangerous but they have their own set of variables. Ya gotta be a little tetched to put true smokeless in a muzzleloader that is not made for it. The Savage is made from a whole different grade of steel. What with 777 and 209's why fool around?

cliffs · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:27:24 AM »

:-) That is what got the Savage going. A guy they call 1shot had been using a custom smokeless ML for years and decided to market it.

ihookem · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2003, 02:41:49 PM »

I have an Encore stainless ,and never believed the stuff about dangers about smokless in an Encore. So I had to give it a try. Although I don't bother anymore cause it is faster to measure cleanshot than to weigh smokless powder. And smokless powder charges are finicky.It won't blow up a good barrel no matter what anyone says, but you can't just use any barrel. A stainless 416 is a very tough barrel. So is the 4414 steel.
The catch is, you better use a sabot. If the pressure gets too high the sabot breaks apart and causes blow by which releases the pressure. If the sabot doesn't break apart the pressure is fine. Also, you need a high pressure sabot or it won't work at all. If an Encore can withstand a 300 mag with max. reloads, it can withstand more than a plastic sabot. But I would never do this with a cheap grade steel barrel. P.S. be carefull if you try this.

agdexter · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:06:28 PM »

The question is not whether the barrel is strong enough. They are the same barrels as for the centerfire stuff. It is that the breech assembly is not designed or built for the pressures of smokeless powder. Some of this discussion sounds like preliminaries for a Darwin award.

cliffs · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:40:37 PM »

:eek: Using smokeless in a muzzleloader not designed for it is suicide. The breech area where the pressure is the strongest is NOT made for smokeless. Like I said I HAD a Savage and I know a little about it. There is not that much of an advantage and I will list the reasons:
1. You still have to take the breechplug out that night if you fire the gun, the reason? If you don't you will have the mother of all stuck breech plugs. There are many Savage owners that found this out the hard way, and they had to send their barrels in to get the plug removed and then had to buy a new one. 2. I have a chrony and I was getting a whole 175 fps more than with 777 with a 240 xtp and sabot. You have to use special sabots or the smokeless just chews them up and accuracy goes to pot. The only way to get the maximum advantage from the smokeless was to first put in the powder, then 2 over powder wads, then a sabot base with the petals cutoff, and then a sabot with your bullet of choice. Try reloading that when a second shot was needed. 3. You have to weigh each charge and put it in vials and then only special vials that the smokeless doesn't react with. If you don't weigh each charge accuracy goes down the drain. 4. After all this, if it is cold out, and here in Wis. it is always cold during muzzle season (Dec.) the sabot shrinks in the bore when it cools and the D*** gun doesn't fire because the smokeless needs to be "held" back or it won't fire. By the way it takes about 3 or 4 primers to push the bullet far enough down the barrel so that it falls out and you can pour the rest of the powder out before you can reload. How many deer will wait for that? 5. After all this, you are still using the same ballistic coefficient starved bullet made for pistols that the guys shooting black powder are. Don't forget that the bullet of choice the 240 gr xtp sometimes doesn't work real good on deer because it comes apart at regular muzzle velocities. How about from 200 to 500 fps faster?
Now, how many of you fellers still want to shoot smokeless in your muzzleloaders? I sold my Savage to somebody that had the same stars in their eyes that I had when I bought it. I now shoot an Encore :grin: :-D and couldn't be happier. Weighs about 2 lbs less too.

If you want to know anything more about the Savage their is a separate forum just for Savage owners over at dreamtools.com