Author Topic: fluxing the lead for muzzleloaders? (Read 569 times)

Jerry/PA · « **on:** September 25, 2004, 04:33:52 PM »

Hi all;

This is my first post on this forum, although I've been around a few of the others, so ..... be gentle with me!

I just bought a melting pot and a couple of molds on ebay. For right now, I'm only interested in casting RB's and maybe a few REAL conicals. "Pure", soft lead for my frontstuffers... not "hard-cast" alloy bullets.

I've read around, both here, and as much as I can find elsewhere on the internet, and I'm confused about a few things...especially fluxing related. Most of what I have been able to find to read seems to be saying that fluxing removes the "dross?", and also stirs in, and keeps the tin and antimony?

Does this refer to us muzzleloader guys who only care about our lead being soft? I'm confused.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2004, 04:49:07 PM »

Fluxing means 'to clean', comes from a Latin word.

The cleaning process involves getting rid of the crud that is in the melt and keeping more oxides from forming at the time. This involves stirring, so the crud floats to the top and it usually involves doing something to keep the oxygen from forming more oxides with the elements of the melt - like burning wax or sawdust or some chemical that will tie up the oxygen. Stirring and skimming often get rid of the oxides and crud.

The alloy is just that. The metals in it do not separate. Stirring helps the cleaning process. If you could separate the metals that would be usefull for taking wheel weights and removing all but the lead and having a soft lead for black powder. Can't be done at 'normal' temperatures.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2004, 06:33:43 AM »

I too am a novice caster, and I also read somewhere that if you just skim off the crud without fluxing first you can remove some of the Tin in the alloy. Is this just an ol' wives tale?

Ian

edit: inserted a word that my fried brain left out

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2004, 06:48:29 AM »

Haywire, I suspect it is an old wives tale. I do know that fluxing and stirring in removes little if any metal to liquid state. Next time you get ready to flux, collect all the dross in a pile, then flux and stir. You'll find that the pile afterwards is the same apparent size as before.

The Shrink · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2004, 01:23:02 AM »

According to Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook the answer is no. Once it is in the alloy it stays there.

Fluxing is necessary for pure lead as well. It is vanishing unlikely that you will find pure lead without stuff in it. At the very least it's been kept in a warehouse and all the crap that floats around there is attached. More likely there will be impurities, other metals that will not alloy and that float to the top, being lighter than the lead, when fluxed. I think that the major, ongoing source of impurities in my mix is the rust from the cast iron pot itself! I poured some ingots and got it almost empty, dumped out the hardned lead, and there was rust under the lead. This was almost immediate, with no time for the rust to form. That means that the pot is rusting while the lead is in it.

Kenneth L. Walters · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2004, 06:50:57 PM »

Fluxing does ibe good thing. It makes some people feel good. Does not help the alloy or metal at all but some casters are so sure that it does that they REALLY need to do it.

Fluxing can also do a bad thing. If it disturbes the moulds operating temperature then it can raise the percentage of visually unacceptable bullets. I'm sure about that. I use to save my bullets in their as cast order (only works with single cavity moulds), and study visual defects versus fluxing times. Fluxing unquestionable can cause problems.

If you must flux, do it before or after casting your bullets but NOT during a casting session.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:55:15 AM »

Thanks KLW - good observations -

This may be why a lot of folks like the kitty-litter on top (to keep down the oxidation - vs. fluxing & stirring to remove it).

Over time things of differing density will stratify - lighter stuff coming to the top. Stirring both brings lighter stuff to the top to be scraped off and moves it around in the mix.

Question? Did you notice a difference in quality of bullet cast (in relationship to time of fluxing) and the type of flux used (say Marvilux vs. sawdust or something like it burned on top) ?

Once in a while I'll have a batch that has really really fine junk distributed in it - takes FOREVER to get out.

So too, some have noted that an older technique in cleaning up lead was to leave the mix in the smelter (after much skimming) for half an hour or so and skim some more.

Jerry/PA · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2004, 03:12:25 AM »

Hey Cat Whisperer,

I've noticed that, especially on the 320 grain REAL conicals, that I do have very fine inclusions of "junk". About the size of a grain of salt or pepper...

I suspect that they're probably there on the .490 RB's, but maybe not as visible.... the large surfaces on the REAL's make it easy for the eye to notice them.

What do you do to get them out... any special "tricks to the trade?"

I will try to let the pot sit, melted, and maybe with kitty litter on top, for a half hour and see if it floats out.

Regards,

Jerry.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2004, 04:27:52 PM »

I've (fortunately) only run into that once.

Best to melt wheel weights etc. out doors in a different container than from which you cast boolets.

I have one batch of several hundered pounds that will get remelted and recleaned (fluxed) as well.

Suggest doing the same if the batch is contaminated. That will also give you an opportunity to empty and clean your casting furnace.