Author Topic: A Dishonest Firearm Seller  (Read 1082 times)

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Offline TexasMac

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A Dishonest Firearm Seller
« on: October 08, 2004, 07:26:32 PM »
If you frequent this forum you have likely come across some comments and inquiries from me now and then, most likely concerning the Browning BPC rifles.  Although I have a broad interest in firearms a major portion of my time over the last 3 or 4 years has been spent on researching and writing a book on the Browning BPCR’s.  In conjunction with my research I purchased and resold several of the rifles, but only after completely disassembling and making chamber casts of each.  Many were new but a few were used, although used very little.  In addition to other data the chamber casts provided valuable insight into Browning’s/Miroku’s manufacturing.  The disassembly and reassembly process provided the necessary details for a very detailed, lengthy chapter in the book.  After fully characterizing each rifle I sold some and still have a few.  By the way, all the used rifles were completely cleaned, properly lubricated and sold as used rifles.  So what does all this have to do with a dishonest firearm seller?  Well, unfortunately for me I recently ran into one.

His name is John Hall.  Since John Hall is a rather common name, so as not to confuse this John Hall with another, he gave his address as 711 West Clinton St., Elmira, NY 14905.  At least that is the address I sent a certified check to.  The subject rifle was listed on GunBroker.com, and I did receive it, a Browning BPCR in .45-70.  But the condition was vastly different than what was represented.  You should be able to view the listing at http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=22546403 until GunBroker removes it.  John’s seller name is “johnnybones”.  If you check out the listing you will note two things.  Prior to my very negative feedback he had an excellent history, but only as a buyer of 5 items, not a seller.  Also pay close attention to his description of the rifle.  I’ve listed it below; in case GunBroker deletes the listing.

“Browning, Model 1885, BPCR, 45-70, with Vernier sight set. The gun is in excellent condition with wood and bluing as new, without any noticable blemishes. Wood and bluing 99%+. Wood shows contrasting grain pattern with dark striping.”

Prior to bidding on the rifle I inquired if there were any modification made to the firearm.  John’s response was “The gun is all original.  Nothing has been modified.”  So after bidding and winning (I was the only bidder, and obviously not as smart as some other folks) I sent John the money and waited for the rifle.

A few days later the rifle arrived.  It didn’t take long to determine that I had been conned, swindled, defrauded, ripped off.  So what did I find?
1) Upon initial inspection it was clear the rifle had been well used but the metal and wood finish was in good condition, except for several shallow dings on the front edge of the forearm where it had obviously been rested while shooting.
2) The barrel had been drilled and tapped for two scope mounts.  The screw hole spacing matches those for MVA scope bases.  These were in addition to the original factory scope base screw holes.
3) The chamber had been “ringed”.  It’s not a deep ring but is very visible, and is approximately where the bullet and powder meets in the case.
4) The forearm is permanently glued to the barrel with what appears to be a very strong RTV type sealant.  There is no way to remove the firearm without destroying it, and therefore no way to fully disassemble the rifle.

Subsequent to inspecting the rifle I emailed John and informed him of my findings.  Controlling my anger I politely requested to return the rifle for a refund.  I also mentioned that I attempted to disassemble the rifle but was unable to because of the glued forearm.  His response was to refuse to take it back because I tried to disassemble the rifle.  He stated that, “Your inspection should have been limited in scope to the normal inspection protocol as would be followed by a customer in a local gun shop.”  I exchanged several more emails with John.  He refuses to admit purposely misrepresenting the condition of the rifle and absolutely will not take it back.

I have the listing and all of our correspondence.  I’m currently having high-quality photos made of the rifles condition and will be filing a fraud claim with GunBroker.com.  Since certified mail was used to mail the payment to John I will also be filing a mail fraud claim with the US Post Office.  Based on the rifle’s wear and additional MVA base screw holes it’s obvious it has been shoot a fair amount, likely in competition around the NY/Penn. area.  If you know John or know of him I strongly recommend that you do not have any dealing with him.

Wayne
NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member
http://www.texas-mac.com
As Warren Miller once said "Don't take life seriously because you can't come out of it alive."

Offline Don Buckbee

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A Dishonest Firearm Seller
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2004, 11:50:26 PM »
Just a suggestion..
You might consider posting this same post in the classified section so all of the buyers and seller can benefit from it.
Thanks for the post.
I also buy many guns from the Internet and am well informed by your information.
Don Buckbee

Offline Prince of Wales

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A Dishonest Firearm Seller
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2004, 04:13:48 AM »
Wayne thanks for the heads up on this seller. As they say BUYER BEWARE! POW

Offline cricman

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I want to go to Gunbroker College...
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 05:58:54 PM »
...were I can get A's on 80% papers.  Just an observation;  shouldn't ol' Johnnybones be given the feedback grade of B for 80%?  Heck, it's barely a B at that!  Sorry to hear about the bum deal, and thanks for the heads up.  Too bad it happened be be over a $1000+ purchase.  I guess it's the gamble of online auctions.