30-30 AI Range Report

[mudriver]

Okay, so I've figured out that I've done something wrong.   :oops: I just don't know what.  Got a factory 30-30 AI barrel with a TC 2.5x7 scope.  Got two powders - 3031 and 4198.  Fireformed Remington brass - and they grouped around 1.3" at 100 yds.  So I was excited, thinking this would be easy.  I was wrong. :cry:

Results (all ranges at 100 yards)
150g Nosler BT 36g of 3031 = 2.3"
130g Hornady SSP 33g of 4198 = 2"
125g Sierra w/ 33g of 4198 = 1.8"
125g Nosler BT 33g of 4198 = 2"
125g Nosler BT 33.5g of 4198 = 2"
125g Nosler BT 34g of 4198 = 2"

See a trend?  With the same rig in .223 I can get .75" and I'm a decent shot even though my rest isn't the greatest.  Barrel's clean.  I put tape on the scope to make sure it's not moving (had that problem with other calibers).  

I'm guessing my reloading's off - I use a digital scale and get great groups with other calibers.  Did I miss something?

If this is too specific for this forum let me know and I can take this offline.

Thanks in advance for any help! :-D

[KYODE]

3 shot groups?.....5 shot groups?

what weight pull is the trigger?.......is the forearm touching the barrel?

a good trigger down around 2-3lbs will help. stainless washers placed between the forearm and dovetails will help keep the forearm from touching the barrel. sanding a bit of wood out may also help.

carefully working up, and testing accuracy at each increment of powder charge may fine tune the load.

barrels can be different in preferences. other powders are available to test. AA2015, W748......are a couple, for example that could produce. although the powders you have on hand, have worked in other barrels i know of. testing in your own barrel could produce different results.

bullet seating depth can be adjusted to fine tune accuracy.

too many things we don't know yet, for us to be much help.

 :oops: ....."GB" may not prefer to have exact charge weights listed. :?

[haroldclark]

Your groups seem to be consistant.  I doubt there is anything wrong with your reloading process.  There is no voodoo or secrets about reloading.  I have 15 TC barrels at the present time and have had many more.  

Save yourself some time and grief by obtaining a little jar of LBT Firelapping compound and some 30 caliber "Cast Lead" bullets (100 count).

You obtain two pieces of sheet metal about 6" X 6" and another one 6"" by 2" wide.  You smear a small amount of the LBT lapping compound on the larger metal, place your cast bullets on their sides and roll them in the material with the smaller piece of steel.  This will impregnate the cast bullets with the lapping compound.

Expand the case necks of your cases so they will accept the cast bullet on top of 6 grains of Bullesey, W231 or Blue Dot powder.  Load up 50 to start with and shoot them.  Clean the barrel after every 10 shots.  You may have to have a Lead Removing Cloth like "Wipe Away".  After firing 50 rounds clean the barrel good again and pick the best shooting load that you have previously tested.  It will reduce the size of your groups.  Now, when you fire some jacketed bullets in your barrel, shoot about 20 to 30 rounds before you go for group and do not clean it between groups.  Try to keep from heating the barrel by shooting no more than 5 rounds at a time and allow the barrel to cool.  If you are not happy with the groups, use the other 50 firelapping bullets.  This depends on the condition of your barrel.  As good as TC Barrels are, they will be deadly accurate after firelapping them.  I have fire lapped over 20 TC Barrels, several Revolvers and many rifles. I have had tremendous success.  This procedure is much less expensive that wasting ammo testing loads after loads after loads.  I've been there done that too.

Once you get the gun shooting to your satisfaction, do not clean the barrel again untill it loses it's accuracy.  Yeah, I know that you have been told to "Clean the Barrel" time and time again.  Just humor me with this one and you will be surprised.  I have some stories about not cleaning and cleaning that will surprise you and you won't believe them until after you do the above recommendations.  Instead of cleaning the barrel, simply run a clean patch with BreakFree or similar lubricant down the barrel a couple of times and put it away.

I'll be hearing from you.

Harold Clark

[Lone Star]

See a trend?  With the same rig in .223 I can get .75" and I'm a decent shot even though my rest isn't the greatest.

The trend I see is a very consistent grouping - indicating that the loading is probably not the problem.  The fact that you can get .75" groups with a .223 is irrelevant - the low-recoil .223 is easier for most shooters to group well.  My guess is that the shooter needs to fine-tune his technique for the more heavily-recoiling cartridge.  Either than, or the barrel is just not going to shoot better groups - that happens all the time too.  But since the fireforming loads were likely of lesser recoil and they shot better, it makes me think it is probably technique.  A careful hand placement, keeping gripping pressure exactly the same shot to shot is vital.  So is a consistent rest position shot-to-shot - the poster says his rest is "not the greatest" yet he expects great groups.  It isn't going to happen.  The heavier the recoil, the more important the rest and hand placement/pressure become.  Based upon the limited information given this seems the best answer to me.

[SD Handgunner]

Considering all of the other answers to your post, I would think maybe the cartridge overall length may be the issue. I would think the distance from the ogive of the bullet that contacts the barrel with the factory rounds and your handloads would be different considering the different shapes of the bullets (I am assuming the factory loads were flat points). I had something very similar happen with my .30-30 AI Barrel when I switched from IMR-4198 to the more temperature friendly H-4198SC. When I seated my bullets 1/8" deeper with the H-4198SC Loads I got my accuracy back, and actually even better than I had previously obtained.

Not sure if this is you problem or not, but may be something to look at.

SD Handgunner

[Majbg]

All Good Information.  Good Luck Mudriver, as I just ordered my 30-30AI 24" bbl from Fox River and will be collecting information on loads and general information.  Thanks to all who respond.  Bill

[mudriver]

Hey thanks a million for the advice.  This is all great advice and I plan on using all of it to be sure.  I would probably be happier if I wasn't so stinkin obsessed about it! :shock:

I'm traveling this week and will try a few things next week when I get the chance to hit the bench. I'll send an update as soon as I get some results!

[mudriver]

Last things.

These are 5 shot groups.  3 pound trigger - I like it.  

I'll avoid posting charge weights in the future if that's the way to go here.  Sorry bout that.