Need a .45-70 load for Elk....

[jonr]

If anyone has a good, hot .45-70 load for Elk I would appreciate it.
I have checked with a gunsmith to make sure the gun can handle hotter loads. It is the old style Browning lever action.

Thanks!

Jonr

[Donna]

Hello jonr,

Get yourself a Reloading Manual, or two, or three. If you get someone else’s load you’ll have to reduce it and work up anyways and then it may not shoot in your rifle worth a hoot too boot. So start off right and get your own Reloading Manual and work up your own loads yourself. Or you could ship me your rifle and $500.00 plus the cost of supplies and I’ll work up a load for you. LOL

Donna :wink:

[jonr]

Thanks for the advice Dona but I already have 3 reloading manuals and I have read all of them.

I am just trying to find out if someone has a favorite .45-70 load for larger game.

Jonr

[Donna]

Hello jonr,

I like using IMR-3031 powder. This powder is an extruded type so is does not meter out very well. But this powder is very forgiving in a wide range of weight and produces very nice accuracy. Powder weight can vary from a mild of less than 40.0 grains for lightweight bullets to a stout shoulder buster of well over 50.0 grains for the heavy 500-grain bullets. I’m using 47 grains topped with a 405-grain lead bullet but I’m not happy with the lead bullet although I have not found a jacketed bullet that I like. I cannot fire more than eight in a day but it will do a very nice job on any North American game provider a better bullet is found than the ones I have.

Donna

[Ka6otm]

jonr,

A load I have used for many years is the Speer 400 grain JSP and 52 grains of IMR3031 with Large Rifle (not magnum primer) in a Winchester case.  Very accurate in my Marlin and near a maximum load according to my Speer manual.

The only thing wrong with the bullet is the jacket is a little too thin for Grizzly bears , but fine for anything else in North America according to Speer.


Ka6otm

[Donna]

That’s mostly what’s wrong with factory bullets. They are either too thin in the jackets, they have a hollow point, or are too lightweight and some have all three problems. I had ordered a bullet die set for swaging bullets for my .45-70 but had to cancel the order. I was going to make the jackets out of 0.035 inch wall thickness copper tubing with a total weight of 350 to 500 grains with a 0.350-inch meplat. That will take any bear in the northern hemisphere.

Donna

[jhalcott]

i suppose you want a jacketed load as opposed to a cast lead one?
  A 350 GR hORNADY RN CAN be pushed to around 2200 fps. This will be brutal in your light gun.Even the 300 gr Horn is rated for big game. At 2400 fps it is ample for Elk. I have shot these (300 & 350) bullets in T/c's and bolt rifles.I started with 3031 powder at modest levels and increased charges till recoil became objectionable. 1900 fps was enough for me. I never shot at an elk so don't know what they would have thought. RX7 was another good powder.I used it in both rifle and T/C for about 1900-2000 fps. I tried several cast loads also,but they are lots more work to get accurate.  jh

[Donna]

Yes, jacketed bullets are the only ones I shoot, never had any success with cast lead bullets. I have a Marlin tube feed and while I could load them one at a time I prefer to shoot flat point bullets out of it and load the tube up. I am not happy at all with the factory bullets that I have found so far. Like I said there always lacking in something. Maybe I can reorder that die set at the end of the year then I’ll be in business, figuratively speaking.

Donna

[djl4570]

I have found that H322 works well with 300g bullets in a Marlin 1895.   You'll have to consult the Hodgdon #27 or Lyman #48 manuals for details since I don't remember them off the top of my head.   H322 powder is slow enough that you can get good loading density and moderate pressures.   The 300g Barnes X might be a good choice here but you'd need to work up a load which gets expensive.

Lead bullets are a different world.   Hard cast lead has not worked well in any of my 45-70's.   A soft 20-1 alloy 500-575g Roundnose, Postell or Creedmore style bullet lubed with SPG, a vegfiber wad and a charge of Varget taken from the trapdoor section of Lyman #48 has been shooting well for me in my Shiloh's and in the Ballard High Wall.   The Postell and Creedmores won't cycle through a lever gun.   The round nose sits farther down in the case and might cycle ok.

[Haywire Haywood]

Donna, have you tried Hawk Bullets?  They have the .035 jacket thickness you are looking for in a 350 and 400gr Jacketed Flat Point.

Ian

[ricciardelli]

http://stevespages.com/table1.html

[unspellable]

You guys are worrying about the wrong thing here.  What's needed is lots of patience and a good cigar.  The patience is required to stalk up to within 45 yards of the elk.  The cigar is for smoking after you shoot him.  When the cigar is finished you follow the blood trail to the carcass.  Given these points it doesn't matter a tinker's d**n what you load in the 45-70.

[jonr]

Has anyone tried H4895 and the 400 grain Speer flat nose bullets?
3031 seems to be prefered, but I wanted H4895 since it is an extreme powder and I will have a MAJOR temp change from where I am loading to where I am hunting.

Thanks!

Jonr

[Thebear_78]

I have a freind that highly recomends the Remington 405gr bulk bullets at 1800fps for moose out of his marlin.  He said it was a sledge hammer for knocking down the big bulls.   You can achieve the 1800-1900fps without too much difficulty with the 405gr bullets and several powders.  It seems like the 405gr remington bullet performs best below 2000fps.  Another good bullet is the barnes XFN or the 300gr Barnes X.  You would have to single load the SP X bullets but they are good out to 200-250 yards for big game.

[Buffalogun]

jonr,

I have never taken an Elk, but I have worked up a load for my Sharps that consist of the Lee .459-3R 500g. SPT over 45g Varget for a velocity of 1,600 fps. It is quite accurate to 200 yds. and is plenty flat for that distance.

However, it does loosen the dirt in front of the bench! :lol:


Buffalogun

[jonr]

I did not mention it before, but the gun I am loaded the previously discussed elk rounds for is a Browning 1886 lever action.

Here is the problem I ran into:

So I get my H4895 and a box of the 400 grn Speer bullets and start to load up several loads this weekend.
The cases were around 2.102" in length.
Max case length is 2.105". Trim to length is 2.095".

Max cart. length is  2.550". The cartridge I loaded were 2.536".
This should be plenty short, should it not?

I thought this would be plenty short, but when I went to chamber it into the gun the action was very tight the last 3/4" of the lever closing.
The gun will chamber 300 and 405 grain factory loads normally and the COL is around 2.540" on them.

After repeatedly chambering this hand load it had what looked like rifling marks on the the nose close to the mouth of the case and had shrunk to 2.522". Once at this size it would chamber normally.

I can not just make the bullets 2.522" in length or I will not be able to crimp in the groove. I was very close to the top of the grove at 2.536".

So, can I trim the cases below standard trim length to get them to work in this gun?

This same round will chamber normal in my modern marlin lever action.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Jonr

[Fred McIntire]

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination; however, it sounds like you may have a "short chamber" in this rifle.

Have you measured the chamber in the rifle?

Can you seat the bullet deeper? The difference between the published maximum cartridge length and the ammo you loaded is not that great, in my opinion. It could come into play in a "short chamber".

Does factory ammunition chamber easily? If so, are you doing a full length resizing of the brass you are loading?

Just food for thought. Like I said, I'm no expert.

[jackfish]

Use a 405 grain Remington bullet instead.  It has a harder lead alloy core and is a double diameter bullet with a lands diameter nose section which allows it to be used in short throated rifles.  You should be able to seat to 2.55" or possibly more (the 1886 action should cycle rounds longer than 2.55"), crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die, and it will chamber and cycle beautifully.

[jonr]

Thanks Jack!

Is this bullet strong enought to standup on Elk at 1825 fps?

 

Jonr