.54 RB and whitetails

[WNC]

I have a .54 T/C Renegade and am in the process of getting everything together for it (RS Pyrodex, measure, etc.)
I've shot the rifle a few times and 60 gr. of Pyro RS has proved to be a dang accurate load using .530 RB. I've been having some problems with patches blowing out and hope to get this problem figured out in the next few days. I've been using cotton military cleaning patches and cutting them down to size for the RB. Can't remember right off what the thickness mikes out to on the patches.

I was wondering if those that use a .54 might share your experience with it on whitetails? I'm thinking hard about giving it a try this season. If I score one, it'll be my first deer ever and I'd love for it to be knocked off it's feet by a RB.

Also, what type of load do you like to use for deer?

Any suggestions/comments/advice?
Thanks a bunch

[roundball]

I've taken a few deer with a .54cal TC Hawken with patched round ball and it's devastating, usually dropping them where they stand or a few body lengths away...my load is:

90grns Goex FFFg
OxYoke wonderwad
.018" prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .530 ball

[TNrifleman]

I've killed several whitetails with 54 caliber round balls. The 54 is my preferred muzzleloader riflle. I use 80 grains of FFg Goex, a .010" Ox Yoke prelubed patch, and a .530" Hornady roundball. Put one of those balls in the right place, and the deer won't go far. I've shot deer to 75 yards with this load, and never recovered a ball. BTW, great blood trails result if the deer doesn't go down right there. Some load up hotter, but I haven't found it necessary.

[quickdtoo]

I have a .54 T/C Renegade and am in the process of getting everything together for it (RS Pyrodex, measure, etc.)
I've shot the rifle a few times and 60 gr. of Pyro RS has proved to be a dang accurate load using .530 RB. I've been having some problems with patches blowing out and hope to get this problem figured out in the next few days. I've been using cotton military cleaning patches and cutting them down to size for the RB. Can't remember right off what the thickness mikes out to on the patches.

I was wondering if those that use a .54 might share your experience with it on whitetails? I'm thinking hard about giving it a try this season. If I score one, it'll be my first deer ever and I'd love for it to be knocked off it's feet by a RB.

Also, what type of load do you like to use for deer?

Any suggestions/comments/advice?
Thanks a bunch

Military patch material isn't a very durable fabric, I'd recommend using TC or Ox-yoke patches due to availability and durability, .015" should do the trick. I know lots of shooters that use denim from an old pair of blue jeans, also, it's durable and the price is right! Just make sure the denim is 100% cotton, no synthetics in it.

[flintlock]

Agree with quickdtoo, on patching...I've used my .54 Carolina rifle for about 14 yrs....I use 80gr ff, .530 ball I cast out of a Rapine Primitive mould, .015 patches, lubed with Sno-Seal...It will do all that needs to be done to a whitetail...out to 100yds...flintlock

[WNC]

How do I go about finding which patch thickness I need?
  Is it all just a preference or is there a certain thickness I should use?
The barrel on this old Renegade looks to be a little rough now, so I'm thinking .018 thickness or does it matter that much??

Thanks again

[Ramrod]

WNC, right now, it sounds like your patch problem is that the cleaning patches are made from too loose a weave of cloth. All cotton cloth is not the same. Pillow ticking, denim, and linen, are all made from tighter weaves. Get some good STRONG cloth before you start worrying about thickness, as there is alot of difference of opinion on how tight a patch and ball needs to be.

[quickdtoo]

The tighter the weave, the better...just make sure it's all cotton, synthetics can melt and cause a mess in the barrel. Use your best judgment on thickness and how it feels going down the barrel. If it pops in with one firm hit on a short starter, then goes down snug but not hard with the ramrod, I'd call it good. If it can be started without a short starter in an unconed muzzle, I'd consider it too loose, some wouldn't. The idea is to be tight enough to lightly engrave the weave of the fabric onto the ball.

[roundball]

TC's barrels are made so the nominal sizes of everything usually work fine...ie: .530 balls, .018" pillow ticking.
Check with ML supply houses like Cain's Outdoors in West Va...order a few bags of TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches (you won't regret it)

Contact Ed Cain via Email  (see website www.cainsoutdoor.com) or give him a call...done a lot of business with him, good prices and a good guy

[Winter Hawk]

If you have the time, get pillow ticking patches in several thicknesses.  Also get a bag of balls in .530 and one in .535.  Then go out to the range and see which combination gives the tightest group.  In other words, shoot a group with 60 gr. of powder, a .010 patch and .530 ball, then increase the charge to 65 grains with the same powder and ball and do her again.  Run one or two of your military patches down the bore and back with a cleaning jag between shots.  Once you have the most accurate load, start the process again with a .015 patch.  Then go through the whole thing again with the .535 ball.

Just like working up a load for a centerfire rifle, you are trying to come up with the combination which your rifle likes the best.  Super loads are not necessarily the best.  I think you will find that around 80 grains of 2f black powder (by volume, not weight!) will give you your best accuracy.  That will also be more than enough to get you your deer.

Good luck and good hunting!

-WH-

[WNC]

I'll give the .018 patches a try then. I'll call Cains in the morning

Thanks for the advice everybody. I really apppreciate it.
    Oh, and RoundBall.....after you get your tags filled this season, how about sending some of those deer over toward Jackson county so I can have a chance at one. :-)

[roundball]

Won't be long and we'll be out among'em!!
 :grin:

[zrifleman]

If you buy pillow ticking or denim or any fabric---wash it to remove filler in the fabric. Linen is available on the internet--it is almost always superior patch material. Many years ago I aquired some .010" 60 weave Irish linen. I use that with a .500" ball in my .50 RB gun. With 100 grs of 2ffg Goex I never burn a hole in a patch. Groups at 50 yds are a ragged hole just over ball diameter and at 100 yds my best group was 1 1/4" for 5 shots. I use melted crisco for lube. My first buck with a muzzleloader was taken with a .50 cal loaded with 50 grs of 2ffg BP-- he died of a broken neck.

[Pogue]

Saw a .54 drop a 450 pound hog once, so I imagine it'd do a whitetail with no problem.  As always, shot placement is the key.

[gurtie]

I just started hunting with my 54 TC Hawken last fall.
I shot a 6-point buck.  I also killed a 160 lb pig this spring.

My load was 75grn FFG Goex
0.15 TC Patch
0.530 Hornady Roundball

The prb passed through the buck (62 yards).  He didn't go far.
I shot the pig at the base of the ear (12 yards).  

A 54 prb is very deadly in my short experience with it!

[cbagman]

I like Roundball's answer.. That was the load (90g Goex FFFG) I used in the .50 T/C hawkin and .018 patch with a .495 ball loaded pre hunt and a .490 for field loading..  I use the same in a .54 Flint half stock except use a .535 ball & prelubed patch loaded right before the hunt and .530 balls to reload with in the field.  When lucky enough to get a good shot off, I generally clean the bore with a bit of moosemilk and dry it well, then reload and run a tight patch down with some borebutter on it or gun oil to  make sure no rust gets started while tracking and getting the game out... from cbagman

[XCOP]

To answer your question about the ability of .54 to anchor a deer with round ball, let me assure you that it will do that and much more.  My favorite rifle is a .54 full stock Hawken.  I made that rifle about 20 years ago.  Not real pretty as it was my first attempt, but it shoots!!  It has a 39" Sharron barrel, 1in66 twist and I shoot .530 ball with 18/1000 pillow ticking, behind 110 gr. FF Goex.  It is very accurate with that charge and though it didn't exactly knock em off their feet, I have taken two elk and numerous deer with it.  The elk each went approx. 40 yards with lung shots.    Love the flint and .54 is my choice of round.

[Birddog6]

The .54 cal. RB will definaltely do the job.  I have shot allot of deer with them & they will shoot through one longways or sideways.
I shoot 80 grains of FF Goex or Scheutzen with a .018 pillow ticking patch, .535 RB and a liquid lube.  It will easily group 3 sshots under 2" C to C at 100 yards off a bench which is far more accurate than I am.....

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I've been putting deer in the freezer since 1998, exclusively with a .54 ball.  

My experience is interesting.  At first I always got pass-throughs.  And I frequently did a lot of tracking.  Then I did a very scientific study and I changed several variables all at once.

I got a new gun about the same time my powder and lead source ran out and hence switched to Swiss powder and plumbers lead (I had been using telephone cable sheathing).

The new gun has a longer barrel, the Swiss powder is faster than my old Elephant, and the plumbers lead is supposedly softer than the cable sheathing.

Now the balls don't pass-through as often and I don't do as much tracking.   Interestingly, I haven't recovered many balls as they seem to bounce back into the gut cavity and they get lost in the entrails.  I know they don't pass-through because when I skin 'em I can see where the ball bruises the off-side hide but there's no hole and no ball.

On the other hand, the one ball I did recover showed no lack of penetration ability.  It traveled diagonally from the right shoulder and lodged in the hide off the left hind quarter.

I think there's something about the elasticity of the hide that stops bullets.  It may appear that the bullet runs out of steam just on the other side of the animal.  I think, however, the hide catches it like a baseball mit, giving the illusion that you just barely had enough penetration.

[WNC]

Thanks for all the experience. I hope to start doing some scouting this week and hopefully take one this season. I currently have the 1:48 twist on the Renegade, but have a GM 1:70 twist 32" barrel on the way and I can't wait to see the difference with RB. Hopefully I can post some pics soon of a big buck that got blistered by a .54 round ball

Thanks again

[Ridge]

I use 80 grains of 2F powder, pillow ticking, and a .535 ball cast from a Rapine mold.  All the deer I've shot have gone straight down.

[Longcruise]

Now the balls don't pass-through as often and I don't do as much tracking. Interestingly, I haven't recovered many balls as they seem to bounce back into the gut cavity and they get lost in the entrails. I know they don't pass-through because when I skin 'em I can see where the ball bruises the off-side hide but there's no hole and no ball.

Just returned from the annual hunt and we had that same experience with two of the three deeer we shot.  all game was hit with .54 guns shooting RB's and either 80 grains of Goex ff or 100 grains of Graf fff.  One dropped on the spot and the other ran 30 yards.  Funny thing was the same load that did not exit a broadside chest shot (no bones hit) on a deer did exit after passing through more than 24 inches of an elk.  both shots at the same distance.  Go figger!

The thrid deer hit with the 100 grain charge at 30 yards had a major exit wqound.  I don't think anything was stopping that ball.  Graf's is hot powder.  I'm guestimating that ball was close to 2000 fps mv.

[S.S.]

Speer .530 Rb over 60 grains of pyrodex RS
but my personal max range with my .54 would be no more
than 100 yards. Anything over 100 yards and you might
want to increase the powder charge a bit.
I am a believer in accuracy over power, and 60 grains
is deadly accurate in my rifle. The last deer I got with
a muzzle loader was with my .45 cal Kentucky rifle.
this gun fires a .440 ball (140 grain I think) and I only
use 50 grains of powder in it. Deer was about 65 yards
distance and he dropped in his tracks from a high lung shot.

[Longcruise]

If deer were the only hunted all the guys in my group would probably go to .50 cals and RB over 55 to 70 grains of powder.  We go with the .54's and heavier charges because we hunt deer and elk at the same time.

Personally, I think the other two guys and their puny 80 grain loads are a bit weak but then there is that elk that dropped in his tracks

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Funny thing was the same load that did not exit a broadside chest shot (no bones hit) on a deer did exit after passing through more than 24 inches of an elk. both shots at the same distance. Go figger!

Not surprised at all.  Puzzled, but not surprised.  If there's anything you can count on, you can count on being confused.

[Jerry/PA]

Hi all;

With just a quick look through this thread, I think I counted 6 fellows who charge at 80 grains of Goex FFg, one who said 55 to 70, and one or two at 70?  

My one buddy at the local Traditional Buckskinner's Club, shoots his 54 for both the monthly trailwalks and Whitetail Deer/ Black Bear hunting, with,.... you guessed it.... 80 grains of Goex FFg.

He said that it doesn't beat him up too bad for 15 shots on the monthly trailwalk, and he says that 80 FFg and a 54 RB "absolutely flattens" the deer.

I've heard this so many times, from people that sure seem to know.... I think I believe it!

Regards to all,

Ironsights Jerry.

[filmokentucky]

The .54 is, in my humble opinion, a great all around caliber for white tail sized game on up. I don't know why I ever let my last one go, but I plan on keeping the one that is on the way. I used to use a 70 gr. charge for target work and 100 grs. for hunting. Then I noticed the 100 gr. charge was a tad more accurate (usually the lighter charge is more accurate in my experience), so I used 100 grs. for everything. The rifle weighed eight and a half pounds and recoil just wasn't a factor. Actually, I
can't remember a front stuffer that was a pain to shoot. I have a .62 caliber flint rifle that weighs a tick over seven pounds, and even with a 100 gr. charge under a 324 gr. ball I can shoot it all day without discomfort. I wonder, if you really think about it, how many of us really have been "beaten up" by their muzzle loader?

[Good time Charlie]

I can shoot my GPR .54 all doy with 80 grains of goex fff with prb. But push a 380 grain REAL down that barrel and it will put a hurting on you.
                               Old Charlie

[S.S.]

Ever fire a .75 caliber Brown Bess?
It will shove you pretty hard!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Nope, haven't fired a Bess, but I had a 12 gauge CVA dble that I used to shoot .710 balls from.  It was hell on milk jugs to 50 yards.

It would push me around quite a bit, but I never recall a sore shoulder.  In fact my cheek bone got more punishment - I remember that.

My .54 flintlock will jump around a bit with 100 grains of Swiss 2f.  But if I'm shooting offhand, my pocketbook starts to ache before my shoulder whenever I'm shooting 100 grains of powder.  I usually drop down to 70 or 50.  I'm going to try something under 50 grains in 3f Swiss just to see if I can get accuracy with such a light load.

100 grains of powder ain't much for a .62.  Ain't you sposed to run 'er with 162 grains of powder (1/2 the ball weight)?