Buckmaster or Sightron SII??

[goose7856]

I bought a Nikon Buckmaster 4-12x50 AO about 2-3 months ago, and now I am wondering if I made a bad decision.......I not mounted the scope yet, and I just saw a scope that I somehow passed up in my 2 months of prevous reseach.  It is the Sightron SII 3-15x42 AO.  I think it retails for around the same price as the Buckmaster, and now I am really wanting the SII instead of the Buckmaster........dangit I should have been patient

I really like the 3-15 range for mag., thats why I almost bought the 3-15x 56 Hakko, but decided to get the Buckmaster instead.........so my question is, which scope is better??  The buckmaster or the Sightron SII??

I have never heard anything bad about either scope, but I really rather the 3-15 than the 4-12..........also the 42mm lens seems to be a good trade off/in between size from the 40mm and 50mm.........

What does everyone believe??  

P.S.: If I get some good results, then I may offer to sell the Buckmaster for the same price as the Optic Zone, or I may sell it on ebay, so that I have enough money to buy the Sightron SII (I REALLY like that scope.......I saw a Sightron on sale today for $295 and I want it BAD!!)

[7magWoodsman]

That is a hard decision there, as you stated, both scopes are fine pieces of equipment for what they are and for the money.

Normally I would say the Nikon just because it's a Nikon, but I am a HUGE fan of 40/42mm objectives, because you will not have trouble with medium rings, which will allow a tighter grip on the weapon(on average)...some people prefer high rings for eye alignment, but I have shot at EXTREME ranges and I do my best shooting with medium rings and 40mm objectives...something about the excessive field of view that comes with a 44-56mm scopes I don't like at longer distances(500+yards) Maybe it's just me???

I would say the Sightron SII 3-15x42 AO...but again it's a hard choice...

Stay Safe. Happy Hunting/Shooting.  

[Graybeard]

Sorry but I gotta say it. You are suffering from a SERIOUS OVERDOSE of magazine writer mania.

Ya don't need no dang telescope as big as the Hubbel to shoot a deer. If you can't get the job done with a 3-9 you need to learn how to either hunt or shoot or both.

My vote is for None of the above. Buy a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9. I don't own a big game hunting rifle with a scope more powerful than that and only ONE of them has that much. In over 45 years of chasing game with scopes I think I've made a total of one shot at 9X. Most are made at 3X or 4X and some times even less if the scope has a lower power.

It's your money and you can spend it anyway you want to but the scopes you're looking at are more of a handicap than a help to a person hunting deer in the real world. Now if you were in the videos or on TV or in the magazines and being paid to use those huge scopes and your hunts were paid for by the manufacturers I'd say go for it, not your money anyway. But dang it, this is your money and your hunts. Use what works not what the magazine writers are paid to sell.

[Lead pot]

95% of my deer hunting is with my Marlin .444 or the Savage 99 with a .300 savage chamber neither rifle wears a scope, and they never failed me with a bad shot placement,but I never felt I needed to take a 500 yard shot at game.
In ILL. I'm limited to a shot gun it has a 1 1/2-5 power scope on it and it's set at 1 1/2. or a front stuffer with barrel sights.

For my .22-250 fox and coyote rifle it has like GB's 3200 3x9

[7magWoodsman]

Sorry but I gotta say it. You are suffering from a SERIOUS OVERDOSE of magazine writer mania.

Ya don't need no dang telescope as big as the Hubbel to shoot a deer. If you can't get the job done with a 3-9 you need to learn how to either hunt or shoot or both.

In over 45 years of chasing game with scopes I think I've made a total of one shot at 9X. Most are made at 3X or 4X and some times even less if the scope has a lower power.

I totally agree with these points and I faithfully use 2x-7x and 3x-9x and never use max magnification either...I have tried to talk some sense into goose7856 on more than one occasion, but he will not listen, and is probally getting tired of my recommendations, so that is the only reason I actually answered his question without deviation.

Maybe one day he will realize that reading about and actual life experiences are two totally different things.

It is truly a shame that he will not listen to people, such as Greybeard, that has been hunting for 4 times longer than he has even been alive.

Another thing...I can't stand Adjustable Objectives, more than likely while hunting you will be twisting that thing long after you should have already shot your rifle.

 

[goose7856]

I agree with the AO thing.........but since most rifles come set at 100, ill jus keep it at 100..........im stubborn, but i guess ill learn.........i dont see the big deal b/t a 3-15, and a 3-9??  Either way you can still go down to 3 power to get a large FOV??

[Graybeard]

I agree with the AO thing.........but since most rifles come set at 100, ill jus keep it at 100..........im stubborn, but i guess ill learn.........i dont see the big deal b/t a 3-15, and a 3-9?? Either way you can still go down to 3 power to get a large FOV??

OK let's try again.

Generally speaking at 3X on a 3-9 you'll have a wider FOV than on a scope of higher power with 3X at lower end. I'd have to question what is the ACTUAL magnification range of that scope that "claims" to be 3-15. That is a 5X span of magnification. I know of no reputable brand which has more than a 4X span. I'm not saying it isn't technically possible, it likely is.


BUT there are no free lunches. All things a manufacturer does to an optical instument mean compromises in something else. If you increase magnification something must suffer. It has to be either FOV or eye relief or both.

Regardless there is just never gonna be a time when you need more than nine power for your deer hunting.

The scope you are thinking of getting is gonna be a HUGE scope. Far larger and heavier than a 3-9. That comes as a penalty in the deer woods. It catches on brush and bumps into everything. It is easier to get knocked out of whack and recoil forces are magnified on huge scopes. The larger the objective and especially beyond a 40MM objective minus AO the higher you must mount it and therefore the less natural the placement of your eye to scope when you throw it up for a quick shot.

There are no advantages and only disadvantages in using such a scope on a rifle intended for hunting deer. If you ONLY hunted from a shooting house over a green field and shots only come at 200+ yards there are fewer disadvantages but still no real advantages. If you can't see this now and just won't listen to those of us who've been doing this for 25-40+ years then you will learn it the hard way on your own. But one day the realization will come to you.

Most all of the magazine writers know this. BUT they are paid to tell you to buy what the manufacturers want to move. Why do they want to move the larger scopes? Bigger profit margin. Most scopes actually cost pretty much the same to make. It is really no more expensive to make the tube for a big scope than a small one. The difference in raw material is negligible, sure spread over a million of them it matters but on any one it really doesn't. Lens are a little more expensive as glass is sold by the pound and larger scopes need larger lens, at least larger objective lens. For the most part the actual number of lens is pretty standard in a brand of scopes. Erector lens are basically the same size and number in all one inch scopes. So where's the real world manufacturing cost difference that justifies charging almost twice as much for a 6-24 say as compared to a 2-7? PROFIT MARGIN. More profit is the reason they want the magazines to push them. But those same writers when given the opportunity to use what they WANT to use rather than what they are being paid to use chose smaller scopes. Occasionally one of them even admits it.

[TXSURVEYOR]

I too have fallen victim to the scope blues. Just a few weeks ago I was at a crossroads with scopes. I have a marlin 30/30 that I wanted to put a new scope on since the tasco I bought could not hold a zero. I decided
that rather than buying a scope for the 30/30 I would upgrade my trophy3x9 on my 30/06. So I swapped it out and mounted it on the marlin.
I could not get it sighted in. I mounted it and ran out of adjustment in the scope. Turns out I need windage adjutable bases. So I scraped the whole thing. I decided Iron sights for me and I am glade I did what a blast to shoot. So now I bought a new sightron s1 and put on the 30/06,nice scope
but I didn't need to buy it since I decided to go scopeless on the marlin.
The point is if aint broke don't fix it. If you have a gun with a good scope on  it that shoots good leave it alone, don't get cought up in the hype.
Graybeard is correct a 3x9x40 is all you need. Heck most hunters could get by with fixed power 4 or 6 and be just fine.

[goose7856]

HAHA greybeard........you changed my poll!!??

I understand all of you hate any hihg powered scope........but i wont used it that much!!!!!!!!! Just when I feel i can make a better shot with it!!!!!!most of the time I will jus use it on 6x,7x, or 8x!!!!!!!!

I e-mailed the Sightron Company about the scope I am interested in, and they said they are discontinouing the scope b/c of poor sales........ :cry:

I can still get it, and here is there response to my question:

Hi,

I am interested in buying one of your products (the one listed), and i
have a few questions:

1. What is the light transmission percentage (%) for this particular scope??
97%

2. How low can the AO range down to and how far (10 yards to infinity??)10
yds

3. What type of warranty is supplied?? Lifetime replacement warranty

4. What is the suggested retail value?? $586.00

***We are discontinuing this scope due to poor sales.  Please keep checking
with MidwayUSA.com for a future sale of these scopes.  We are in negotiation
with them now to take the remainder of our stock.  The price will be right!
It is a good scope, but didn't have good response.

Eden

Wow those are some REALLY GOOD #'S!! 97% light transmission!!?? Thats alot better than the buckmaster, and even the Monarch, thats even goign inot the LPS range of transmission!!??

Kind of expensivce, but i found a guy sellin one for $295!! And since it has a lifetime warranty that makes it perfect!!

I know how all the other ppl that dislike higher mag. feel, but the way i look at it is get what you want, and fits you the best........if i wanted a 10-40x70 and it fitted my needs to the best then thats what i would get........if a 2-7 was the best, then i would get that.......i jsut like havin the option for the high powered scopes.........when i went into wanting to buy a scope I had already decided the lowest power i would buy would be a 12x.  It is just what i though to be the best for me.....period!!  I am not sayin your opinions about having a 3-9x40 is wrong, im just saying that i want to try something different, and that I think it would not be the best scope for me.  I THINK the Sightron is the best......or I wouldnt be tryin desperately to buy it.........i completely understand that you don't think thats the best........but if someone was offering you a gun in 30-06 or .22lr, and all u do is rabbit hunt and squirrel hunt, then you would get the .22 CORRECT??!! I am just sayin get what fits your needs, and be done with it......(I DO NOT MEAN TO DISRESPECT ANY OF YOU WITH MY OPINION, ITS JUST WHAT I THINK, AND THATS WHAT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND) If I believe a little high powered scope will help me acheive better acuracy then it WILL!! All about comfort and believing in your equipment, you wouldn't go hunting a elephant with a .22, you go prepared, and u have CONFIDENCE in the equipment.........I think thats what alot of my decision is based upon.......i will be much more CONFIDENT with the extra mag. than the 2x-7x that I currently hunt with!!

[Graybeard]

I understand all of you hate any hihg powered scope........but i wont used it that much!!!!!!!!! Just when I feel i can make a better shot with it!!!!!!most of the time I will jus use it on 6x,7x, or 8x!!!!!!!!

No clearly you STILL don't understand.

I don't hate high magnification scopes. I think they are great. Indispensible in fact. IN THEIR PLACE! Their place is NOT on top of a deer rifle or a squirrel rifle.

It is atop a gun used for punching paper, for truly long range shooting, for shooting small varmints at long range and a lot of other uses.

BUT a deer rifle JUST ISN"T at proper use of them. Neither is a squirrel rifle.

You WILL one day understand. When I don't know. But one day the realization will hit you like a ton of bricks.

[Buckfever]

I think some of us have missed a real important point!  Goose really cares about our sport.  You want to experiment , like all of us have.  As having tried these high, high power scopes and found sooner or later we were able to see the games eye lashes but when it moved we couldn't keep it in the scope we got rid of them for hunting.  All us older guys are telling you our experience but hey I did all the stuff you are doing and could have had extra guns for the money I spent.  So guys let him experiment, and maybe we know the outcome, but I just think having a young person who likes what we do and is willing to talk about it is great!  Goose go have as much fun doing research and talking the products it extends our season.  All Greybeard is telling you is the absolute truth but sometimes in life acceptance only comes through our own eyes.   Buckfever

[huntin1]

Goose get the Sightron, they have an excellent product.
I guess after 25+ years of deer hunting with 1x4's, 3x9's, 3.5x10's etc, etc, I still don't know nothing cause when I built my new rig this past spring I topped it with a Sightron 4x16x42 AO mildot, I've been using tactical scopes on my hunting rifles for years and would never go back to a standard 3x9 scope. Just my preference, I'll put up with the added weight etc to have the optics I want, not what someone else thinks I should have. What makes this sport so much fun is all the choices we are offered, it would be boring indeed if we all had to use the same thing, why then there would not be all these spirited conversations.    


huntin1