Mark II With 20 inch barrel question ??

[razmuz]

I got one of the light weight Mark II's with the twenty inch skinny barrel.  It just flat wouldn't shoot.  I sent it back to Ruger and it still wouldn't shoot.  Back to Ruger again and this time they sent it back with the 20 inch barrel with "iron" sights.  They don't produce this rifle with "iron" sights??  I called Ruger and they have no idea why they put "iron" sights on this style rifle?  Do I have the only one or are there others out there?  The rifle is 257 caliber and I plan on trying it out next week. :shock:

[PA-Joe]

Did they give you any test targets with it?

[razmuz]

No they didn't and I asked for them each time.  I even changed scopes and that didn't help.  Maybe It will shoot this go-around.   The people at Ruger are real easy to deal with, but they have little information to share.

[De41mag]

razmuz;

I've got a MKII with a 20" barrel in 7.62X39. Have only shot the Russian stuff through it. Was getting sub two inch groups with the laqured green cases and a 122gr. HP. Now all I can find is the polymer coated steel grey cartridges. and my groups have opened up to 3"+. Going to try some American made hunting ammo in the next couple of weeks. Called Ruger to see if my barrel is a .308dia. but they told me it was a .310dia. But yea, it's no tack driver but still have fun with it and shooting it costs about  like 22 rimfire stuff.
Hope you can get it to shoot.

Dennis  

[billy]

I have one in .270 and it will not group like i like ,3 shots at 50 yards in 2 inch hole and when the barrel gets hot which is very soon it,s over till it cools down.Going to try some other brands of ammo to se what happens.

[mikej]

Razmuz,
  Just a few questions if you'll bear with me.
   What exactly is "won't shoot"? 2", 4", 6" and at what distance?
   Are you using factory ammo or handloads?
   What weight bullets? How many different brands?
   Have you checked the action screws for tightness?
   Have you checked the barrel channel for pressure points?
   How bad is your trigger pull? I know the M77 MK II's are pretty awful in this regard, and it can make a difference.
   What bench technique are you using, if any? I find best results with skinny barreled rifles if my rest is placed under the magazine, thus relieving any pressure on the barrel.

  I have quite a few Ruger rifles, and most are adequate in the accuracy department, giving an average of 1.5-2" at 100 yds with my handloads. I have a Compact in .260 that I'm working with now, and it is very finicky on powder/bullet combos. I have a friend that has a rifle like yours in .257 Rob'ts that he loves, because it will shoot factory ammo into 1.5" at 100 yds, which is above average for modern production rifles. You are correct that these rifles do not come with factory iron sights, and if this barrel shoots, I think I would keep it, just for the oddity.

 If you handload, you may want to try seating the bullets out to within .010 of the lands, as this sometimes helps improve accuracy.

 Anyway just a few thoughts from someone who has been frustrated in the past by factory rifles.

[razmuz]

Most everything you mentioned I've tried.  I used a "collimator" to get started and couldn't hit the four targets 34-28 inch at 100 yards.  At fifty yards I hit the target right on the edge, adjusted and got about 8 inches above zero, next shot didn't hit the target.  When I got it back from Ruger I could manage a spread of about 6 inches using Hornady 117 BTSP Light Mag.  Keep in mind that the 6 inch spread was in a different part of the target every three shots.  I  tried Rem & Win factory and about 10 different handloads.  Each reload I started with a cool barrel.  I reload for about six different calibers and have never had a rifle shoot this bad.  In about 20 min I'm heading to the range.  Maybe the iron sights will do the trick even though I'm using a scope.  When I get back I'll tell you how it shoots.

[tbmaker]

What about the bedding?
I had a Rem Model 7 with a 18" barrel, nothing special till I took out the pressure point out near the end.
Not a fan of the compacts, each rifle is it's own nightmare.
Did you try Federal's 120 gr Nosler Partitions? My 257 Roberts loves them, does'nt like Hornady's light mag load.

[mikej]

Razmuz,
  Hopefully your new barrel will give better performance. I am assuming that Ruger put a new barrel on the rifle this time, vice fitting the old barrel with iron sights, but just in case they didn't give you a new barrel, the only thing that I can imagine is a damaged muzzle crown, or a barrel with grossly different barrel diameter than .257. You might want to slug the barrel to see. If this one shoots like the last one I would press Ruger hard to give you another complete rifle, and if they won't, I'd have this one rebarreled by a good riflesmith. hope everything works out.

[razmuz]

Didn't go to the range, to hot.  You guys have made some good points, but I shouldn't have to do anything to make this rifle shoot.  If Ruger has a problem with the compact rifle they should quit selling it.  One should be able to get a fifty cent size group from any new factory rifle.  I knew better than to get the 20 inch barrel, but did it anyway.  Oh well, I have my Rem's to fall back on.  Good Shooting.

[tscott]

After numerous range sessions some years ago (cooling off periods).
The one shot zero is great...3 shots are ok for deer inside of 100yds.
Bottom line is after gnashing of teeth at the range, my belief is that it is a single shot mountain rifle... Fine for me in that I make sure for one shot.
A look at the steel diameter of the barrel, indicates to me that one of the major weight reduction techniques was to go with a thin barrel.
After 3 shots, it walks like OJ! (My gun is .270).

[safetysheriff]

Just for the fun of it, take a look at your benchrest technique.    Do not let any sling swivels hit the rifle rest during recoil; do not shoot a rifle while resting it on suede or leather -- which should be covered with something smoother (less friction) like a piece of denim; do not let the hinged floor plate hit the rifle rest during recoil, etc.etc.

Is your trigger pull too heavy like it often is on so many of these Rugers?
If so see the gunsmithing ideas on www.centerfirecentral.com

Do not shoot with a bunch of caffeine or medication in you....it runs my shooting into the ground!

My experience with 22"- barreled Ruger 77MkII's has been very good...including the relatively light-weight all-weather models.

Take care.

[mikej]

Razmuz,
  Don't totally give up. Ruger should replace your rifle with a similar one if this repair doesn't work. I bought a Red Label from them for Sporting Clays, and the lower barrel would misfire every 3rd round. Quite frustrating in competition. Anyway they found that the firing pin hole had been bored off line causing a bind on the pin. They replaced the entire shotgun. Pain in the butt, however the new Red Label is still going strong. Every company has problems during the manufacturing process, and most don't stand behind their products as well as Ruger. As I mentioned previously, I have a good friend who has an identical rifle to yours, and his will shoot five shots into 1.5" with factory ammo. Most factory rifles average 2" at 100 yds, including Remington and Winchester; Ruger is no different.

[razmuz]

I'll go broke sending this rifle back to them.  This is the third time.  The f
olks at Ruger are "super" nice and their favorite quote is "send it to us." On the positive side is that they sent me a letter authenticating that they put the iron sights on the barrel.

[safetysheriff]

If you know a good 'smith in the area who can tell you where to get that barrel air-gauged you may find out what's wrong with that rifle.     If the barrel is too tight in the receiver, like Ruger had some time back with other firearms in their line, then the 'choking' effect near the chamber will squeeze the bullet diameter down and give you a sloppy fit further up the barrel near the muzzle.    An air gauge can tell you if there's a problem like this.    Ruger had problems with their revolvers like this and with possibly another type of firearm because of the lubricant they used to install the barrels into their frames being too slippery!    

I love Rugers generally; but can believe that you're getting tired of this.  

My first post, dealing with bench technique was made in good faith; but it may have been very wide of the mark.   Nothing personal.

I'd get that barrel checked for fit to the receiver and get it air-gauged.

Good luck.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Raz-----have you verified that the scope is not the problem by trying it on another rifle???

[Mirage]

Have a mk II .270 "All Weather" .270 with 20" bbl., semi-skelotinized stock. Love the rifle the way it it handles, accuracy is something else.

Have not not handloaded, so far WW 130 PP is most accurate with 1.5" 100 yd groups (luckily the cheap stuff). have noticed 2 bad things about shooting this Ruger:

1. Bbl. gets hot! have to let cool 2 minutes between shots, 10 minutes between groups, otherwise groups really tend to open up.

2. Bbl. copper fouls the worst of any rifle I've owned. regaler cleaning (shooters choice etc.) led to believe it was clean. Stepping up to montana X-treme solvent has blue "rolling" out of the bbl! Suggest using aggressive solvent with Ruger bbl.  If I didn't just use this rifle for deer 1x year I would consider running the Tubbs final finish through the bore.

3. Also removed bbl. / action from stock and filed down contact points along bbl. channel.

Good luck,

Mirage