My Curiosity

[VTDW]

makes me ask why I can't use some powder other than black powder or 777 in my muzzle loader? I am certainly no reloader and wouldn't think about trying it unless I was convinced it would work and had a very competent reloader to advise and work with me.  Surely it can be/has been/is being done successfully?

Thanks,

Dave

[IntrepidWizard]

Dave,is it not time to harvest your Mary Juana?

[VTDW]

Wiz,

I promise it is a legitimate question.  I have only been around rifles for a couple of years.  I gave up the Boo Boo years ago.

Dave :grin:

[IntrepidWizard]

Dave,fast powder with a lead projectile is what cap and flint stuff is made for.You can use slow powders but it is very dangerous.

[VTDW]

Thanks Wiz,

I have heard just that but I have a curious mind.  Don't worry, as I am not going to dump any powder down my ML just yet.

Just seems as though it would certainly work.  You sure wouldn't have to worry about corrosion.

Dave :grin:

[AndyHass]

Smokeless powders develop much more pressure than BP and BP substitutes....that and they are MUCH more fussy about the accuracy of your measurement.  A few grains too much and the pressure goes up significantly!
   To be brief, they physics behind an explosion encased in a cartridge versus right against a plain ML barrel with a touchhole is very different as well.
   Finally, smokeless powders have a LOT of variation.  You could really get yourself in trouble trying the wrong one.
   There is one ML designed for smokeless on the mass market, and even one of those blew this year.

[Redhawk1]

makes me ask why I can't use some powder other than black powder or 777 in my muzzle loader? I am certainly no reloader and wouldn't think about trying it unless I was convinced it would work and had a very competent reloader to advise and work with me.  Surely it can be/has been/is being done successfully?

Thanks,

Dave

At the gun shop I go to, the owner loads smokeless in his Encore .50 cal. He is pushing Dead center bullets over 2400 fps. I personally would not do it. But he has been working up loads for 2 years now and also as worked with others to shoot smokeless in there Encore M/L. But again I say, I would not recommend or do it myself.  :eek:

[Keith Lewis]

If the mess and corrosion is the main problem you do not want to deal with as well as having to swab between shots; you might try to find some Black Mag3 powder. I just ordered four pounds of the same from Midsouth and that is what they advertise. No corrosion even if left for weeks after shooting, no build up between shots. Recommedation for best accuracy is to not swab between shots. I am a reloader and have been dealing with almost every smokeless powder that exists and would never NEVER attempt to use a smokeless powder in any muzzleloading rifle other than the Savage and I personally will not buy one of those either. I own a Savage 270 with a switch barrel for 35 Whelan so I do not have anything against Savage. Arizona will not allow smokeless in a muzzleloader hunting season anyway so the whole program is pointless. The guy with the Encore shooting smokeless is experimenting with his life. My life is worth more.

[Redhawk1]

If the mess and corrosion is the main problem you do not want to deal with as well as having to swab between shots; you might try to find some Black Mag3 powder. I just ordered four pounds of the same from Midsouth and that is what they advertise. No corrosion even if left for weeks after shooting, no build up between shots. Recommedation for best accuracy is to not swab between shots. I am a reloader and have been dealing with almost every smokeless powder that exists and would never NEVER attempt to use a smokeless powder in any muzzleloading rifle other than the Savage and I personally will not buy one of those either. I own a Savage 270 with a switch barrel for 35 Whelan so I do not have anything against Savage. Arizona will not allow smokeless in a muzzleloader hunting season anyway so the whole program is pointless. The guy with the Encore shooting smokeless is experimenting with his life. My life is worth more.

Like I said he has been shooting it over 2 years now with the Encore and has taken several deer with it. Also I agree I would not do it either. :eek:  Some people just have to temp fate. :shock:

[Keith Lewis]

I have some smokeless loads for my 40-65 which come very close to duplicating blackpowder performance; however, that is in a controlled brass case and a Badger barrel on a Remington Rolling Block action which was designed for the 7X57 cartridge,with very close attention to detail and a host of background from the powder manufacturer making the use a lot more safe than pouring the same powder down a barrel and expecting the results to be the same. Relative to the two year experience I know some guys walk titeropes for years before they fall off. Not my cup of tea either. My Omega has basically the same barrel as the Encore and I would not try it there either. It sounds like the original question is from a relative newcomer and I certainly would not want to encourage any experimentation of this type regardless of how many times it has been done without bad results. I will shut up now as I think I have said all I can about this.

[VTDW]

Keith Lewis,

You are correct in that I am a novice.  I certainly appreciate all advice I have received here and especially yours.  Very informative for sure.  I will ask my reloading friend about the powder you mentioned and see if he will work with me on this.  He probably will not and if not I sure trust his judgement as well as yours since you stated your opinion so succintley and strongly.

Thanks again,

Dave :-)

[Keith Lewis]

The Black Mag3 powder is another black powder synthetic and can be used on a volume basis equally with regular black powder. I understand that it might be a slight bit more powerful than regular black powder and I would recommend that you start with a relatively light load of 75 to 80 grains (by volume) and a fairly light bullet 240grains or less. I expect that I will eventually end up shooting a 90 to 100 grain load of powder with a 300 grain bullet if my rifle likes that load. I am getting ready for an Elk hunt this fall. As these sites will tell you all rifles shoot a little different and you cannot rely on someone else for exact loads for you rifle. Follow all the rules the same as black powder except for the swab between shots which isn't necessary with this powder. Try several loads and work up in five grain increments until you find a load that shoots well with the bullet you select. Powerbelt bullets seem to shoot pretty well in almost all the rifles. They load a little easier than the sabot bullets which is a plus also. Your reloader friend might be of help but possibly not if he has not done anything with muzzleloaders before. Reloading for cartridge rifles and shooting black powder muzzleloaders is a totally different game. I do both and I have spent a lot of time reading and getting information off these sites to get to the place I am now.

[VTDW]

Thanks Keith,

Will get some of the Black Mag3 on order and work up what I need.  I love their website.

Thanks again,

Dave

[Redhawk1]

I have some smokeless loads for my 40-65 which come very close to duplicating blackpowder performance; however, that is in a controlled brass case and a Badger barrel on a Remington Rolling Block action which was designed for the 7X57 cartridge,with very close attention to detail and a host of background from the powder manufacturer making the use a lot more safe than pouring the same powder down a barrel and expecting the results to be the same. Relative to the two year experience I know some guys walk titeropes for years before they fall off. Not my cup of tea either. My Omega has basically the same barrel as the Encore and I would not try it there either. It sounds like the original question is from a relative newcomer and I certainly would not want to encourage any experimentation of this type regardless of how many times it has been done without bad results. I will shut up now as I think I have said all I can about this.

Keith Lewis, as I posted above, I gave my feedback and if you care to notice I stated I would not do this. Also did you notice I did not give out the load data he uses in his Encore. I have the data but I would NEVER provide it to anyone for the reason I posted above. I WOULD NEVER " recommend or do it myself. " My post was in answer to VTDW question.

*****At the gun shop I go to, the owner loads smokeless in his Encore .50 cal. He is pushing Dead center bullets over 2400 fps. I personally would not do it. But he has been working up loads for 2 years now and also as worked with others to shoot smokeless in there Encore M/L. But again I say, I would not recommend or do it myself.*****

[Keith Lewis]

Redhawk: I understand and do not have any issues with  you or your comments; I was just trying to be firm in the direction to a relatively novice person looking for direction. I understand his concern for using a cleaner powder. Some people enjoy the real black powder thing. I do sometimes; however, when I am hunting I want all the edge I can get for a clean kill. I am glad that Arizona allows scopes as my eyes do not do open sights well anymore. I also appreciate that the state allows the best muzzleloading components for the same reason. A good clean kill. I still restrict my shots to 100 yards or maybe a little more but not out to 150. Same reason; good clean kill. I am looking at Black Mag3 because it is supposed to allow multiple reloads without swab between. Some Elk require more than one solid hit to go down in the same county. I understand your friend and I also have a friend that runs a duplex smokeless powder load in a 45-70 if you want to talk about questionable loads; I would not post his formula either. Keep your powder dry and your head above water. Hope to be talking with you again soon.