Author Topic: Red dot site for .22lr plinker/squirrel gun? (Read 3023 times)

Brett · « **on:** January 07, 2005, 10:48:18 AM »

Anyone using a red dot type site on their .22lr? I'm thinking about putting a 30mm BSA red dot on my daughter's stainless Rossi single shot. Sportsman's Guide has them for $22. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=178896&pn=2
Anyone have any experience with them (red dot sites not Sportsman's Guide)? Any input you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2005, 12:59:08 PM »

Brett,

I have bought four different "red dot" scopes over the years and all are in one of my drawers in my work bench taking up room. I found I was much more accurate with regular scopes but at least I gave them a good try. My advice is to forget them and go with a good rimfire scope. Lawdog

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:51:53 PM »

I have found one thing a red dot works good on and that is a shotgun shooting shot shells as it gives a fast reference point and does not have to be pin point accurate. I have to agree with law dog I have had several red dots also and the only good use I have found for them were the shotgun and I have used them on rifles, pistols and a crossbow. I find scopes for optics and peep sights for iron sights much more accurate. If you like the dot idea put a peep sight on the 22 and put a red fiber optic front sight on the front .It wil be easier for her to see and a lot more accurate! Otherwise go with a regular scope. Even the cheap cheap cheap 3/4 inch 22 scopes are more accurate than the red dot sights. Until they come up with a good cheap 1moa red dot they are just not that accurate or consistant. Jim

bgjohn · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:57:32 PM »

That's what you guys get for getting a cheap red dot sight. I have a couple of Aimpoints and they are excellent. Zero parallax. I use them shoot pistol silhouette. The cheap red dots are crap.
JM

Brett · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:23:16 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun

If you like the dot idea put a peep sight on the 22 and put a red fiber optic front sight on the front .It wil be easier for her to see and a lot more accurate!

Any suggestions on where to get a peep (aperture) site that will fit the dove tail on the Rossi's? Thanks.

jh45gun · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:50:03 PM »

Check the Williams site out on the web they make peep sights for darn near every thing. Does this gun have a grooved scope rail? or is it drilled and tapped already for a scope rail most are and if either the case I think Williams makes a peep sight that will fit either aplication. http://www.williamsgunsight.com/PDF/2004catalog.pdf Jim

jh45gun · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:57:09 PM »

Quote from: bgjohn

That's what you guys get for getting a cheap red dot sight. I have a couple of Aimpoints and they are excellent. Zero parallax. I use them shoot pistol silhouette. The cheap red dots are crap.
JM

I think both myself and Lawdog are not talking about parralax. I do think we both at least I am talking about a dot covering 4 inches or bigger at 100 yards and even at that say at 50 it is supposed to be 2 inches ect but in real life it never seems to work out that way and several of the red dots I had were not cheap either by any means. To me they just are not as accurate as a scope or peep sight is. Maybe fine for fast accusition with a pistol for the pin or steel target games but all you need there is a hit to knock it over not a tight group which is what I look for or at least as tight as the gun will allow and to handicap it with a red dot just is not acceptable for me. Trust me if it worked I would be happier than hell as I like the concept they just do not have the degree of accuracy I want.

bgjohn · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2005, 01:53:40 AM »

So you haven't tried an Aimpoint?
JM

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2005, 07:12:27 AM »

I have an Aimpoint on a Buckmark and it works great. It is much better for me in every way than the two red dots that are sitting in their boxes under my bench. I use it mostly for indoor shooting (that keeps me from going crazy(er) in winter, but it gets some time in the woods as well.

Keith L · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2005, 07:14:04 AM »

Just realized I posted on a rifle site about my pistol. Sorry. But I think the same thing applies. No paralax problems, small dot doesn't hide much of the target.

Again, sorry for the slip.

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2005, 01:42:23 PM »

bgjohn,

Quote

That's what you guys get for getting a cheap red dot sight. I have a couple of Aimpoints and they are excellent. Zero parallax. I use them shoot pistol silhouette. The cheap red dots are crap.

Quote

So you haven't tried an Aimpoint?

I though someone may want to know what I had tried so here is a list of what is in my drawer.

1.] Aimpoint 5000

2.] Burris SpeedDot 135, 3MOA dot

3.] Burris Xtreme SpeedDot

4.] Nikon Monarch

Add to these two Bushnell Holosights that didnt give me the type of accuracy I prefer. Lawdog

Brett · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2005, 03:48:50 PM »

Lawdog if you would like to make a little room in that drawer I will gladly pay the postage on one of those red dots. I'ld like to try one for myself but don't want to spend a bunch of dough on an iffy proposition.

ThunderStick · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2005, 04:51:27 PM »

I have one on my 10/22 and LOVE it. I have harvested several squirrels this past fall with this set up. I get the same accuracy with the red-dot sight as with a iron "open" sight system. Just how much MOA does the bead on the 10/22 sights cover at say 50 yards?
I also find the red-dot sights to be very fast to put on target. Everything is in the same focal plane, unlike open sights, and you can see them very well in low light conditions, like the squirrel woods.
I love mine.

Brett · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2005, 02:29:56 AM »

Thunderstick, what brand red dot are you using on your 10/22. I don't want a heavy or bulky optical site on a 3.5# single shot youth rifle and I would think a 1x red dot would have to be an improvement over the iron sites in low light like you said.

jh45gun · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2005, 06:08:32 AM »

Quote from: bgjohn

So you haven't tried an Aimpoint?
JM

No Never tried one but I have tried Tasco propoints and Simmons and both were not the cheap end ones. TO me it does not matter who makes it the concept is the same and until you can buy a CHEAP in price 1MOA dot they are not going to have the accuracy a scope does. The last Simmons I had I gave to a guy did not even try to sell it and the last Tasco went to a guy on a gun I had traded to him. To me they just are not accurate enough. Like I said they are great on a shotgun I just do not like them on rifles or pistols. Jim

ThunderStick · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2005, 09:01:11 AM »

Mine is a Bushnell that I spent about $60.00 on. I think the dot is 4 moa, but could be 6, not sure right now. It is a light weight, compact affair, that uses standard 1 inch scope rings. The intensity of the dot is adjustable from 1-10, so you get good aqusistion of the dot in different lighting conditions. I happen to find it very useful during dusk, or overcast rainy days. BTW, during rain is my favorite time to hunt the "hairy tailed tree rat" :-)
I bought this sight to use on a Walther G22 bullpup. I was more impressed with the sights than the gun. When I traded the gun, I kept the sight system and used it on my old trusty 10/22, replacing a Williams peep sight that had been on the gun for 15 years!
Now, if I where going for absolute precision, I would use a high powered optical sight, say, a 3x9, or 4x12. Most of my squirrel hunting is in dense woods and shots are seldom over 50 yards, most are inside 100 feet, ideal for the red -dot sighting system.

Keep your powder dry, Scott

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2005, 11:26:41 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

Quote from: bgjohn
So you haven't tried an Aimpoint?
JM

No Never tried one but I have tried Tasco propoints and Simmons and both were not the cheap end ones. TO me it does not matter who makes it the concept is the same and until you can buy a CHEAP in price 1MOA dot they are not going to have the accuracy a scope does. The last Simmons I had I gave to a guy did not even try to sell it and the last Tasco went to a guy on a gun I had traded to him. To me they just are not accurate enough. Like I said they are great on a shotgun I just do not like them on rifles or pistols. Jim

What a lot of people don't realize, and what I believe both you and I were trying to get across, is the accuracy of red dots isn't up to what a regular scope can do. Because of the amount of target area that the dot covers. A 1/2 MOA means the dot covers a 1/2" @ 100 yards. A 3 MOA covers 3". Now imagine how much target area is covered with an 11 MOA? That is 5.5" @ 50 yards and just how big is the chest area on a rabbit? Precise aiming with red dots just isnt possible. I tried mine on rimfires, centerfires and air guns and in every case my groups opened up.

Brett,

Ill keep you in mind if I decide to sell or trade them off. Lawdog

ThunderStick · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2005, 04:50:30 PM »

Did a little more research after I arrived home this evening. The dot is indeed 6 MOA. I can see my front sight through the tube along with the red dot. I can assure you that the dot covers less of the target than the round bead of the stock sight covers.
So my take would be. If you can hit it with open sights, you can indeed hit it with the dot. Take into consideration that you can see everything around your POA with a dot sight. Where as with std. open sighting systems obscure much of your target.

I guess I just like em! :lol:

jh45gun · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2005, 05:02:34 PM »

Hey Thunderstick as long as you like it and can use it that is all that matters. I do think though that my post and lawdogs are valid post as lots of folks may buy them and not like them or get the accuracy they want. As far as Peep or open sights VS Red Dot sights. I have found out shooting a muzzle loader and a 22 both shot tighter groups with a peep sight than the red dot did. In fact the muzzle loader's groups were a large difference using the peep sight over the red dot. But as I said if you and others like them that is all that matters. Just letting some know they may not be for every one. Jim

jh45gun · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2005, 05:07:22 PM »

Quote from: ThunderStick

Did a little more research after I arrived home this evening. The dot is indeed 6 MOA. I can see my front sight through the tube along with the red dot. I can assure you that the dot covers less of the target than the round bead of the stock sight covers.
So my take would be. If you can hit it with open sights, you can indeed hit it with the dot. Take into consideration that you can see everything around your POA with a dot sight. Where as with std. open sighting systems obscure much of your target.

I guess I just like em! :lol:

Thunderstick I think you are loosing the fact that yea in the sight that dot looks small but the farther you get out in range the larger the dot becomes even though you cannot see that. Think of a funnel and you are at the skinny end and the higher you go on the funnel the wider it gets. Same principle with the red dot.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2005, 11:34:08 AM »

Did someone say 11 MOA dot? :-D .
"Now imagine how much target area is covered with an 11 MOA? That is 5.5" @ 50 yards and just how big is the chest area on a rabbit?".
Thats strange. I have never seen of or heard of an 11 moa dot on a Red Dot sight. When someone earlier said their Red Dot was adjustable from 1 to 11 That referred to the brightness of the illuminated dot, NOT the size of the dot!!!
I have 3 Red Dots, 1, a Millet 1" which has a 3" moa Red Dot and from a bench shoots under 1 inch groups at 100 yards with both Winchester Black box and Silver box ammo and right at an inch with CCI Maxi Mags. I have it on my H&R Sportster .22 Mag set up for coyotes. My next is a 30mm Simmons with a 4" moa dot that I have had on my H&R Smoothbore shotgun and shots Brenneke-Rotweil MP slugs into a ragged cloverleaf from a bench at 50 yards. I never liked Red Dots until I got to fooling around with them, and like most guns, they can shoot better than most shooters, consistency is the key. They are fast on target and great in the woods. I also have a 40mm NcStar that scattergunner sent to me, free!!! because it was not up to his standards and displayed a lot of parrallax, it now proudly sits on another Handi. I think after looking through the 1", 30mm, and 40mm, that the larger the tube the more parrallax is evident, just my observations to date. Anyway, if you don't think these Red Dots can shoot, what do you think is making those .22 Mags all stay within 1" of each other at 100 yards?....<><....

By the way lawdog, I would also be willing and happy to give a good home to any of those Redt Dots (or Holosights) that are gathering dust in your draw and that you don't like....<><.... :grin:

Lawdog · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2005, 12:44:32 PM »

MSP Ret,

Go to http://www.burrisoptics.com/speeddot.html, very popular with the shotgunning crowd. Also found useful by a number of PPC shooters(that is why I bought mine). Lawdog

jh45gun · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2005, 01:04:56 PM »

MSP Ret. More power to you if you can take a 3" MOA dot and shoot 1MOA at a 100 yards. You are doing something I could never do at 50. Or even 25 with a red dot. Yet with a good scope I can shoot half inch groups at 50 all day long. Some even smaller. I am not calling you a liar if you can do it great but I am a doubting thomas on this one I do not think a 3 moa is consistant enough to give you 1 moa consistantly. I guess I will never know as I will never see you shoot.

ThunderStick · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2005, 03:50:50 PM »

How does anyone shoot groups that you can cover with a dime from a .22LR at 25 yards with open iron sights? I'll tell ya. It is consistency with your sight picture, that's how. Just because the dot covers three inches at 50 yards, doesn't mean you can't keep your groups small.

I have a Marlin 981T with a 4x12x40 scope that shoots very well for a hunting rifle. Ammo it likes will shoot inside a nickle at 50 yards all day long. My 10/22 will shoot almost that good with the 6 moa red dot. The red dots aren't for shooting at 100 yards IMO, but for closer work.

The 10/22 with the red dot, 30 round mags and a brick or two of ammo :twisted: Look out all you tin cans, empty shotgun hulls dueling trees, etc,etc.

BTW, at 50 yards you can cover a 3 inch target dot just like stacking two coins with the 6 moa dot. Red dot over a black 3 inch bull and you have a very precise sight picture.

jh45gun · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:04:28 PM »

My sight picture is as consistant as most good shooters I have been shooting for over 44 years starting out with a pellet/bb gun at 8 a crossman rifled barreled one that was very accurate for a bb gun. At 8 I had a hell of a time cocking it as the barrel pushed in to cock it with a stiff spring but I managed. At 12 I graduated to a 22 and then a centerfires for deer that same year. The 22 got lots of shooting time in as a kid as I lived in a small town and the woods were at the back door. I am not bragging but I feel I can shoot a lot better than average with a rifle, good with a pistol and not bad with a scatter gun. Not saying this to brag to to tell you I have shot a lot since I was a kid and I shoot a lot now. Not as much as some maybe but the rangemaster at the range knows me on a first name basis I am there that much. Point is I shoot a lot and Like I have said I just do not find red dots that accurate for me. Including using the bottom point of a triangle target with crosshairs on it for a reference putting the dot on the very bottom of the point of the target which should give very consistant sight pic and I still have never gotten decent groups with a red dot. To some a 2 inch cluster at 25 yards may be good and I am not a accuracy fanatic like some are but if the guns I do have shoot half inch or better I will not handicap them with a red dot as a scope I have found is more consistant as is a good peep sight set up.