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Author Topic: How do you build a "Gamer" load with Black Powder?  (Read 1696 times)

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Offline ButlerFord45

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How do you build a "Gamer" load with Black Powder?
« on: January 08, 2003, 12:37:04 PM »
Awrit cha'll, I really like my 45's, much better than them 38-20's, but I'm pushing the 40gr FFF mark real close, pretty firm crimp on 255gr bullets.  I have never had a fouling problem with this load, and I really like that, cause not only am I cheap, I'm lazy!!  The idea of having to do all of those nasty, time consuming things I've heard of people having to do just to keep their guns running from one stage to the next, is horrifying!!!   If I had to work that hard, I don't know if I'd keep shooting black or not, so ya'll keep that in mind when ya answer ma question.  My load is a hoss,  and while I'm not a competitior, I would like my times to be at least on the same calander page.  I'd like to try lightening my loads, just enough to speed up some.  I was thinking maybe down in the 750fps ball park.

How are ya'll reducing your loads and recoil?  Do you use a filler?  What and how much?  How's the fouling with your loads?  Do you have to work voodoo to keep your guns running?
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
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tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline 107ch

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2003, 03:07:12 AM »
Mr. Ford,
I find myself in the same situation. I was going to first try FFG powder instead of FFFG. If that doesn't do it I figured I might put one of those  thick wonder wads under the bullet. This will make the loading process more tedious, but I don't have much of a social life anyway!!
                                  Dennis Holmbeck
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2003, 03:32:44 AM »
Ok here goes. If you are shootin 45 Colts Then use 45 Schofields that is what I use for my pistols. In the rifle if you use a prs bullet with LOTS of lube it will run an 8 stage match without swabbing the barrel.
LUBE is the answer .
Now for recoil in my 45 Colts it use Lee dippers 1.9dipper for the powder and a .07 dipper for the grits yes GRITS. It will cut down the recoil but will still give you a good accurate bullet and will FLAT SMOKE so no question about (are you shooting BP???).
Also if you will go to a 200 gr bullet 2 lube grove bullet with Thompson's PS or SPG lube you will cut down on your cleaning time and reduce the recoil. Alos use a Beeswax cookie between the bullet and powder.
If you mould bullets your self might I suggest a Rapine Hollow Base 200 gr 2 lube grove bullet . That will end your search of a perfect BP bullet . I also use this bullet in my Smokeless loads. If you use Thompson's PS it will work for both. Out here in the sunny state of AZ SPG will melt and make one HUGE mess. I dont want to keep my loaded rounds in a cooler so  I use the PS lube.
This is what I know , Your milage might vary.
Hope it helps
Pete :wink:
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2003, 05:59:07 AM »
Hah! That one's easy!

.45ACP Black Powder! I've been fooling with this fer a couple of months jist ta see how they do! I put the .45ACP cylinder in my 75 Remmie and shoot 230 grain slugs with 20 grains of three F under em! Very little recoil, LOTS of smoke! :P
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Offline Old Cane

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2003, 06:33:49 AM »
BF, maybe you should ask the Judge. Sounds like he sees it all the time. These other loads SMOKE so you can't get called a gamer like you want.
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Offline Rifled Slug

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2003, 01:12:09 PM »
:D Howdy ,
This is what I do so you all can take it for what you paid for it .
  I cut down some 45 LC brass to Schofield lenght ( 1.100 ) and put in 15 grains by volume of 2F and then put in a piece of caulk backer rod thats long enough to fill the case to the top and then seat your slug on top . It don*t matter what weight slug you use . Of course the lighter it is the less flip you get . Now if you don*t know what caulk backer rod is I am going to tell you . It is a foam rod that is used when filling gaps around windows and such when caulking and weather sealing . I comes in convenient diameters just right for 38 at 3/8" and 1/2" for 44 and 45 . It comes in 20 foot lenghts and can be found in the weather striping section of you favorite home builder store or hardware . If you cut it into pieces about 7/16" long it will be about right . All you want is to take up the air space and compress the foam when you seat the slug .
   Now with all that said I don*t use the Real Black !!! I use American Pioneer Powder ( Clean Shot ) and I can run a whole match with out messing with my hand guns or rifle . I use home cast slugs lubed with Javalina ( alox/bees wax ) . When I shoot 45s I shoot my 58 Remingtons with the R&D cylinders . When I shoot 44s I shoot Rugers and 44spl with the same load and a 200gr LRNFP slug . My rifle is a 66 Yellowboy in 44-40 . Shotgun is a Stoeger SXS .
  I know this is more than you all wanted to know and your milage may vary .
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Offline Rifled Slug

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2003, 06:15:28 AM »
:D Howdy Mr. Guest .
There is a fellow in Las Vegas that sells American Pioneer Powder ( Clean Shot ) on the Gunbroker Auction site under Reloading Supplies . He has a case deal where if you buy 12 cans he knocks a $1.00 off per can and pays the Hasmat and shipping .It gets the price down to around $14.00 a pound . He apparently has a deal with the factory cause it comes directly from them . You don*t have to wait for the auction to end cause there is a web site you can go to to order from with all of his information . His auction name is " coinguy ". I*ve bought from him before with no problems . :grin:
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Offline ButlerFord45

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2003, 06:38:10 AM »
Guest, is that 15 grains of 777 a weighed charge???????   If that's measured by volume and allowing for the fact that 777 is supposedly 10% stronger than BP that would be a 16.5gr BP load.  Will this even clear the barrel???  

See, I told you I don't know about "gamming", I use more powder than this in a 38.
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline 107ch

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How do you build a "Gamer" load w
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2003, 04:13:30 PM »
I have a Question for you guys that are using grits as a filler.Do you put it on top of the powder? or mix it with the powder?Is this load used in the leverguns as well? or what? Is there a formula for proportion or just experiment until you find a load that works. One more question, when the grits come out of the barrel are they cooked??
I am anxious to give this a try.A little less kick and less powder= less cash!!               Thanks,
                        Dennis Holmbeck
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2003, 04:25:03 PM »
Read my post above. It will give you the reciepe for 45 Colt.Do not mix the grits in the powder . Put in the powder then the grits. This load is great for lever guns. It will reduce the recoil but will still SMOKE>
Dont know if they is cooked or not. Cannot tell cause of the smoke'


Pete :wink:
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Offline Old Cane

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2003, 07:48:34 AM »
I'm sure they are cooked but how ya gonaa eat 'em?

107, that is a nice picture there.
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Offline 107ch

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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2003, 02:26:18 PM »
Well,
I just finished loading up 240 rounds of grits buffered 45 long colt. I used a flask to measure the powder I think a 28 grain spout.It was the one I used for my cap and ball remington replica, I don't recall that it kicked too much. I loaded the grits on top of the powder and compressed about .20 to .25 with 250 gr, bullets and a little less with the 200 gr. bullets. I loaded 120 of each. The bad part is, I have to go to work for a few days and I wont get to try them until Monday. I will let you guys know how it goes.
                          Dennis
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Offline 107ch

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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2003, 09:30:28 AM »
I just got back from the range, and boy was it COLD!!!! 3 degrees f.I shot the loads buffered with grits. The pistols did not care what they ate, but the lever action was spraying the 250 gr. bullets all over the place. the 200 gr bullets grouped pretty good at 50 yds.I am sure the temp had an impact on how the guns were shooting as it is also very dry. The pistols smoke and boom was normal, but the rifle seemed to be spraying hot embers with each shot(cooked grits???). The recoil was reduced quite nicely and I am pleased with the load.I now need some advice on a bullet mould for a 200 gr. 45 with adequate grooves for BP lube.  My casting equipment is almost complete and I would like to give bullet casting a try.
                                Dennis
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2003, 04:43:14 AM »
There is 2 moulds I use for bp. One is a very old Rapine 200 gr hollow base with 2 lube groves. This is one great bullet. Really excells in the 45 colt.
Also the new PRS mould by Lee. It is a 250 gr bullet with a Canyon for a lube never run out of lube before the end of the barrel.
both work very accurate for me. I dont like the 250 in my pistol's but love the 200 hollow base.
These work for me your milage might vary
Hope this helps
Pete
Buffalo Arms sells the Rapine and tey come in different calibers.
Lee's sells the PRS if they have anymore left.
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Offline 107ch

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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2003, 08:16:50 AM »
With a hollow base bullet do you need to put a wad over the powder or anything like that???
                                           Dennis
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2003, 03:23:06 PM »
No you do not have to put a wad over the powder. I shoot mine without anything but grits and BP.

Hope this helps.
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