New member thinking about a NEF in .223 or 17HMR

[jmartinson]

Hello all!

I've been reading through the threads here and am excited to have found such a cool forum!

I've been thinking about getting a bolt or break action rifle for a while now so I can try out varmint hunting.  

Some background...

I've never been hunting before but I love the outdoors and I worked as a climbing/backpacking guide when I was in school.  I even spent a summer working at a Texas Parks & Wildlife hunter education camp, but that was before I understood that real hunters generally know more about and have a deeper commitment to conservation than many of the most "devout liberals".

I live in Houston, TX and have inlaws in South Texas, where there are a lot of jackrabbits, coyotes and ferral hogs.  I also have family in South Dakota where there are prairie dogs.

I was originally thinking about getting a Sportster in 17HMR to hunt jackrabbits, squirrels and the occasional close coyote shot (I've been reading about calling in coyotes and am excited about that... thinking about trying it out before I even get a rifle, just to take some pics).

When I realized the prairie dog opportunities (and longer ranges) available in South Dakota, I started thinking .223 might be a better option.  

From what I have read, a lot of people also report quick kills on ferral hogs from heads shots with .223, but they mostly use heavier bullets that penetrate more before expanding.

Which brings up question #1 . . .

Does NEF not make the Handi rifle with a 1 in 9" twist barrel for heavier .223 bullets?  My understanding is that 1 in 12" really limits you to the lightest loads (40-45gr) if you want to maintain any accuracy.

Question #2 . . .

I've been reading about the common problems & solutions (o-ring for accuracy, polishing the chamber & initial cleaning for reliable ejection) but is there anything in particular to look for when looking at a used centerfire Handi?

I'd like to buy new, but I'm really short on funds, probably shouldn't even be considering purchasing a rifle/scope at all, but hey, you only live once right?  So, I'm gonna try to see what's available at the local shops used and also watch the classifieds here...

Question #3 . . .

What do you think of my choice of calibers for the area I'm in?  Cost of the rifle, scope & ammunition is obviously a factor, but I don't think I could live with the limitations of 22LR.

I don't have any reloading equipment, but I have reloaded .38 handgun ammo before, using a super cheap hand tool setup . . . I was 12 at the time and I got turned off from it for a long while after a couple primers went off while I was trying to tap them in!  Underscored the importance of doing it all in the right order!

I don't plan on doing any deer hunting because from what I hear it's ridiculously expensive to get access to a deer lease in Texas.  I'll be happy just to get outside & shoot whatever varmints people want to get rid of.  I came accross some interesting recipes for jackrabbit & squirrel too!

I've found a great deal of NEF info here and any more info you'd like to share is greatly appreciated!

-Jacob

[22KHornet]

As for the first question, NO.  Handi's pretty much just like the lighter bullets.
As for question number 2 I would try and find a heavier barreled handi in lieu of the superlight models but that is just my opinion and I have not had any problems with mine.  I am getting great groups without doing any modifications.
As for question 3 I think I would stick with the 223 over the 17 hmr.  If you were just shooting jacks and squirrel I would say go for the 17 mach2 or the 17 hmr if you were adding yotes to it.  That hog thing though, hogs are mean and hard to bring down, and last time I was in south Texas there were not many trees to climb.  A 223 with the 45 grn white box ammo is a great round for the handi and cheaper than just about anything else (stay away from the army surplus and Wolf brands).  Good luck on the varmit calling but I would hold off until you are armed before you try calling, you sure would hate to call up a coyote or bobcat that had rabies and nothing to dispatch it with :eek:

[MarkA]

He pretty much got it VERY right!  The 223 Rem is so good, so accurate and SO INEXPENSIVE it is almost the perfect cartridge at this writing.  The Winchester White Box 45 grain JHP is nearly THE perfect round in a NEF.  I like the heavy barrels but that is a kinda Blue Car/Green Car thing.  I would not, however, go with the super light.  All barresl vibrate and the Super Light is just that much less stiff.

[Brett]

Varmint shooting requires accurate shooting, accurate shooting takes lots of practice, lots of practice requires lots of ammo.  At this time .223 ammo is a lot cheaper and easier to find than 17HMR.  Besides if you are considering hunting anything larger than 'whistle pigs' the .17's are a bit light IMO.

[Wlscott]

there's a .243 Handi on teh NEF classifieds that would work perfect for what you're looking for.  It's down to $250.00.  If you ever do have an opportunity for deer, then you've got a gun that will work for that too.

Take a look....

[Donaldo]

JMartinson,
Wlscott has a good idea but I think from what you have stated in your original post the 223 Ultra Hunter would be just the ticket for you.  It has a 22 inch barrel that is not quite as heavy as the Ultra Varminter.  It should produce fine accuracy with a few of the standard tweaks.  Plus there is just about no centerfire cheaper to shoot than the 223.  Another plus, generally Texas deer are rather small, with a decent 55 or 60 grn bullet, a neck shot should drop them in their tracks, if you should choose to deer hunt.  The WW econo box of 45 JHP is very accurate in most rifles and about $12.50 for a box of 40.  I have owned just about everything from 30-06 down and like to shoot my 223 Ultra Varminter more than anything I own.  With the light recoil you also don't have to spend a fortune on scopes that stand up to the magnums.  Bushnell makes some pretty decent scopes for under $100.  I have a Simmons ATV 4.5-14x40 on my 223 and it is really great.  Ebay for $65 including shipping brand new.  If you go for the used rifles try to get one of the later models.  You can tell from the second letter in the serial number what year it was made.  2004 is "U", work backwards from there, plus this site has a listing of the years and letter codes.

[v8r]

Hey I have a ULTRA VARMINT IN .223 I MIGHT SELL.  My inlaws live in east texas in a town called VAN.Let me know if you might be interested,I will be there in December.My ultra has a 3x9x40 tasco world class in burris scope rings.It's like new ,I would take $250.00 for it.

[handirifle]

I agree with most of all above.  Get the UV that is for sale.  As for heavy bullets, once you hand load good reports are starting to come in on Sierra's 63gr bullet designed for slow twist rifles.

Some get real decent groups with 55gr FMJ factory stuff, anywhaere from 1" to 2.5" at 100yds.  Not the best but I doubt you'll be shooting over that anyway at hogs.  That might be just the ticket for head shots on hogs.

The 223 is way more versatile and capable.

As for the jacks, just about anything you feed from a 223 will stop them in their tracks.

[jmartinson]

Hey I have a ULTRA VARMINT IN .223 I MIGHT SELL.  My inlaws live in east texas in a town called VAN.Let me know if you might be interested,I will be there in December.My ultra has a 3x9x40 tasco world class in burris scope rings.It's like new ,I would take $250.00 for it.

Yeah, I would definitely be interested!  My email is jmartinson at info234.com.  Email me when your trip date is approaching and we can touch base and see where we are both at.

Thanks!

-Jacob

[bull b 25-06]

I was looking at SHILLEN's custom barrel site the other day,and in their barrel twist info they stated the 1-12'' .223 to be great from the lightest up to 62grain bullets. I personally don't know \, because all i have shot was the winchester 45's jhp ,and hornady 50 grain V-MAX. I wouldn't mind trying the haevier 62's/63's. The 63 grain SIERRA's are supposed to be well balanced for the 1-12'' twist.

later bull b 25-06  

[Wlscott]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I think the .223 is too light for deer.  I've actually shot several deer with my Ultra Varmint in .223.  Usually neck shots, but a 55 grain pill tight behind the shoulder will put them down quick too.  Jump on that UV .223 and you won't be sorry.