Author Topic: Filler wad (Read 596 times)

95Road King · « **on:** October 28, 2004, 11:52:52 AM »

I want to try it. What do I use. How much?? I read I can use Dacron???
I'M shooting cast bullet's in my 45-70 and not using a fillerwad.
Accuracy is so-so. 4-5 " at 75 yds. Will this help?

:-)

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2004, 12:20:04 PM »

Road King, I'm wary of fillers although I sometimes use them. Try everything else first.

First thing to try is 12.5 grains of Unique or 27.0 grains of 5744 under a 405 grain cast of at least .459 diameter.

James B · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2004, 12:48:34 PM »

Maybe we can get some more info on this. A good friend of mine who has been an avid if not rabid cast bullet shooter told me to stay the hell away from wads of any kind. He says you can ring the chamber doing this. I didn't get just why he feels this way but I am going to hunt with him in a couple weeks and plan on getting the low down. Maybe some folks here have more info on this. I am all ears. My Handi 45-70 shoots 405 grain cast bullets into a two inch group at 100 yards. This is with 13 grains of Unique. No filler is needed. I use Magnum primers. This load is consistant as hell at about 1150 fps. Someone here posted this load and I sure thank them for it. Its a fun load to shoot although I have not used it for hunting yet( with that load).Good Hunting.

95Road King · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:14:06 PM »

leftoverdj"
I've heard(read) a lot about UNIQUE lately. Will try it soon. Also, all I"ve ever shot is the 350 gr. bullet. Will also try the 405 GR.
tHANK"S :-)

95Road King · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:18:08 PM »

jAMESB
I will try the load you mentioned. I also am not crazy about filler wad"s. Will try it this week end.
Thank"s :-)

Trapper-Jack · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2004, 02:01:11 AM »

I haven't tried a reduced load with fillers yet, but it is an interest that I have and as soon as time permits will try some. My Speer reloading manual #9 lists a reduced load for almost all of the calibers using SR-4759 for the larger share of them. The manual says that 1/2 to 1 grain of Kapok or Dacron fiber filler were used, with the Dacron being preferred. Other reading sources indicate that the filler will help keep the powder in relatively the same position in relation to the primer and will increase the consistency of loads.

Now my RCBS cast bullet manual #1 also lists SR-4759, along with many other powders, used at a reduced level. These are for velositys of about 2000 fps or less. There is not any mention of using fillers in any of these loads.

From what I've read about the Dacron filler is that if you don't get a hot enough fire behind it to completely consume it or blow it out the end of the barrel, it could just melt into a solid pellet and become an obstruction in the bore. It might be a good idea to check the bore for anything like this until you become comfortable with a powder/filler combination.

50 Calshtr · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2004, 03:44:03 AM »

Gents,
I think we are mistaken when we use the terms filler and wads interchangeably. I use fillers (dacron) for reduced loads in several BP rifles with IMR 4198 with excellent results but use wads only in black powder loads with 100% density. If you use dacron as a filler consider Ross Seyfrieds advice in his many articles in "Rifle" and "Handloader" and use enough to completely fill the available space with moderately compressed dacron. It only adds a couple of grains to the load and exits the barrel with no problems. Wads, according to current theory, if placed on the powder leave an airspace under the bullet and may cause chamber ringing when the wad hits the bullet which has now become an obstuction in the barrel. I never had this problem when I used wads years ago but don't intend to and have adjusted my loading practices as stated above. Now that I've said that I think the best practice is to use a powder that fills the case at least 2/3 full and not bother with either wads or fillers. SR 4759 does this nicely in many cases.
Best.

ajj · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2004, 03:56:53 AM »

There's been a lot written about chamber ringing in the Single Shot and Cast Bullet journals. It's interesting how mysterious it is. Seems to be pretty rare in modern guns with present-day barrel steels. One tip is to go to a pharmacy and get 100% pure cotton balls meaning no synthetic fibers mixed in. Almost all ringing reports seem to be in old rifles using dacron. And then, lots of people shoot with dacron filler all their lives with no problem. In my experience, the dacron is never consumed. Even small amounts of it are blown out the barrel in strands.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2004, 08:29:34 AM »

There is enormous debate and mighty few facts on fillers. If you are gonna use them, you might as well do so in a Handi with its cheaply replaceable barrels. You don't want to use much. Never more than a grain and you want that fluffed up. Cotton is heavier and less fluffy than dacron. I've tried it, but went back to dacron or polyester.

To use fiber filler, pull a strand off your supply and weigh it. A little practice will make you pretty good at knowing when you have half a grain, which is what I mostly use. I catch the end of the strand with a small screwdriver and push the end down to the powder. This draws the rest of the strand in after it. You don't want a wad on top off your powder, just a loose net filling the airspace. I've gotten away with it for several thousand rounds.

Wads are a different matter. The risk is entirely too high in my mind. If you have anything solid on top of the powder with some running room, the bullet can act just like a bore obstruction and you'll get ringing, if not worse.

I do sometimes use grease cookies. These go on the base of the bullet and I would not try them in a bottlenecked case. I saturate a sheet of felt in melted bullet lube and allow to harden. Then I cut out disks with an arch punch. Just seat them on the case mouth, place a bullet on top, and seat the bullet normally. I've seen fibers of the felt get seated along the sides of the bullet so I'm pretty sure the grease cooky will stay in place. These is a way of getting in extra lube and it seems to have a little of a GC effect. Doesn't do much to reduce case volume, though.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2004, 09:28:29 AM »

NRA's "Handloading" on page 48 recommends against using fillers because of bulging of barrels. That is not the same as putting a base wad under the bullet in a straight-walled cartridge -- in my opinion. Brenneke used a base wad screwed into the base of its shotgun slugs -- and apparently has no problems with them. I have not had a problem with them in my 870 Remington 12 gauge.

I believe that base wads, not fillers, are worthy of further exploration for use in straight-walled cartridges.

FWIW: Take a look at what Toby Bridges did at: www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Technical.html creating his own wads for a Savage muzzleloader. Yes, you can see where he experimented with smokeless powder and the 'obdurator cups'.

One questions remains: Are sabots an option to get a fast-killing handgun bullet fired out of a .45-70? If so, that would make the .45-70 a much more versatile cartridge. I don't know if anyone makes them, however.

ps: see also what Toby has to say about using a midweight bullet out of a sabot in his rifle and the use of Hornady's JACKETED xtp' to down whitetails. By extrapolation I think he is getting at the point that jacketed bullets will drop deer more quicklly than hard-cast ..... but that's my extrapolation.

95Road King · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2004, 09:56:29 AM »

To everyone responding to my question"
Thank"s so much. I am really learning a lot from you guy"s. This is my first HANDI 45-70 and I am having a ball shooting it. I hope to get a crack at a deer this season.
Keep the info coming and again, thank's. :-)