Question for experienced .357 Mag., deer hunters

[Bowhunter57]

I've been shooting a .357 Mag. for over 20 years and love it. I've shot other calibers, but prefer the .357 Mag.

Having said that, I've shot a lot of small game, including groundhogs out to 100 yards (off hand), but not whitetailed deer.

I would like to know what to expect as a realistic killing range with accurate reloads using a 158gr. JHP bullets. My reloads are capable of 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards (on a bench). My shooting skills allow me to hit a standard sized clay bird at 50 yards, off hand/ standing, 4 out of 6 times. I'm not bragging, just letting you know what I'm capable of, so that experienced deer hunters with this caliber can tell me what to expect at yardages beyond 50, 75, etc.

Your opinions and experience is appreciated.
Thank you, Bowhunter57

[Jerry Lester]

First off, I wouldn't suggest the 158g HPs for deer. I have had "decent" success with 158g XTP-HPs but still the penetration isn't good enough if a shoulder is hit. Use a good tough 158g bullet like the XTP-FPs or a good SP bullet.

I've killed 7 deer with my 357 Blackhawk, and quite a few with a 357 rifle, so I can assure you that with good shot placement, and the right load, the 357 magnum will definately kill deer cleanly within a reasonable range.

I limit my rifle shots to 100 yards or less, and my revolver shots to about 50 yards. I "know" that the revolver will kill one cleanly out to probably 75 yards or slightly farther, but I don't trust my shooting that good.

With a good tough 158g FP, or SP bullet, and a starting velocity of 1300-1400 fps, the 357 magnum will bust a shoulder on it's entry, and will exit the off side rib cage. A 158g SP bullet will even bust the off shoulder as well on exiting at times if the range is fairly close, and the deer isn't huge. You'll also get a substantial amount of damage to the vitals, and a very good blood trail if he does run a short distance before falling.

There are a lot of hunters who will tell you that the 357 is entirely to low powered for deer. I'll agree that a 44 magnum or other big bore is gonna have more dramatic results on impact, but they positively will not kill a deer any deader, or any quicker than a well placed 158g 357 magnum SP. The trick is to do just that. Make a good shot.

I hunt with my 357 Blackhawk the same way I used to hunt with a bow. I spot a deer, stalk till I get as close as I possibly can, and make my shot usually within 20-40 yards. The deer usually takes off like a bullet for a few yards, and piles up neatly within sight of me. I've never had any better results than that using a 30-06, 45-70, or any other caliber, so as far as I'm concerned, the 357 is perfectly suited to deer hunting.

[LMM]

Glad Jerry Lester responded to your post. IMHO you won't get any better experience information on the .357 Magnum and deer hunting than from him.

[Bowhunter57]

Jerry Lester,
Thank you, for the informational reply.  

I'll have to pick up a box of 158 gr. Soft Point bullets, load 'em up and sight 'em in at 50 yards. I've been shooting 125 gr. JHP bullets all summer for varmints and having excellent results. I loaded up some 148 gr. HBWC bullets backwards for groundhogs....this load is very impressive for quick kills and accuracy, if you keep the load to moderate or low f.p.s.

However, I realize that I'll have to step up things for larger game. I'm just glad you didn't suggest a 170 gr. or 180 gr. bullet. I'd rather go with a flatter trajectory than K.E. to increase my range possibilities.

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

[W]

Bowhunter57;
I have to agree with Jerry Lester. I have taken 6 NY whitetails with a handgun - 3 with a .44 and 3 with the .357. I mention NY whitetails because the ones I see are smaller(120-150 lbs) than those corn feed one in the midwest.  I have used 158gr JHP's and all three were broad side shots and the bullet stopped on the farside under the hide. The first one was about 40 yds away and ran no more than 35yds. The second was +/- 60 yds and fell at the shot because I hit the backbone. The third one was about 7 steps away from me and ran about 50 yds. I am going to use 158JSP this season to see for myself if it will punch thru. One of the whitetails I took with the .44mag I was using a 180gr JHP and that did not pass thru the deer either. I hunt in very thick cover and I have lost 2 deer that I shot with the 44 and they ran off leaving alot of blood behind them. I blame it on poor shot placement that's why I use the .357 - I shoot it much better.
Good Luck
Warren

[W]

I forgot to mention that my .357 was a Ruger Blackhawk with a 6.5" barrel.

[Jerry Lester]

Just for a little more information on this subject, I thought you fellows might be interested in this.

I've "really" put a lot of 357 bullets through some serious testing in a very diverse range of mediums. I settled on 125g Remington(bulk/Midway) soft points for my all around small game/predator loads. I chose this bullet simply because accuracy over a wide range of loads was exellent, and because even when loaded to 1500 fps in my 1894C, it still didn't blow a very big exit hole in a good fur.

After wringing this particular bullet out for about a year, I got thinking(wondering) about how well it would penetrate on something as big as a deer. I pretty much "knew" what to expect, but you know how you just "have" to try it, and see first hand! LOL!

I decided that from what I'd learned from all the testing I'd done with this bullet, that if I loaded it in 357 cases, it'd likely expand too much. I loaded these bullets in 38 specials with 5.8g of Unique, and CCI 500 primers. Muzzle velocity from my 1894C was 1200 fps. I figured this combination should work fine on an average sized(100-150 lbs around here) deer, as long as I kept the range at, or below 50 yards.

A friend of mine offered to let me use one of his damage stamps so I could test out my loads on a live deer. I set up in a thicket that evening, and waited till a pretty decent doe(about 120 lbs on the hoof) came easing down the trail towards me. When she was about 40-50 yards from me, she turned, and gave me my favorite shot(through the facing shoulder, into the vitals). I almost hesitated for a second, but pulled the trigger.

At the shot, she did a mule kick, and ran about 40 yards before falling. That 38 special loaded with a 125g SP not only broke the facing shoulder, but punched through both lungs, through the off shoulder, and exited. Now granted, the exit wound wasn't impressive, but it exited none the less. The key was keeping the velocity within the limits that the bullet could handle, and knowing the effective range.

I just figured I'd toss that experience in here just for the sake of "food for thought". The 158g Remington SPs are just a big brother to the 125g. Both bullets are very tough.

[Gregory]

Bowhunter57

I've only taken one deer with a 357 Mag and that was with a Kieth 170 SWC out of a ten inch TC Contender.  Small doe at about 40 yds through the lungs.  She ran off and made a small circle and layed down within sight of my treestand.  Gave her time and when I got to her she was dead.  I've had longer trailing jobs with lung and heart hits from a 30/06 rifle.

[gwhilikerz]

Jerry Lester I want to thank you for a concise to the point answer about the 357. I have been having a discussion on another forum about this subject. Would it be ok to use your post verbatim in support of my position?

[ted]

I will be hunting deer with a .357 for the first time. I have decided to use the hornady 180 xp/hp. I have a 10 contender and am using 15 gr. Lil'gun with a magnum primer. My average velocity (measured with a shooting chrony) is 1466 fps. I shot this bullet into a gallon milk jug of water and wet newspaper and it mushroomed nicely. Hopefully I will be able to shoot a deer and report back to you guys how the bullet performed. I have seen you (and other threads) mention the 158's a lot but, have not seen much written about the 180's. I will be in thick cover so figure the heavier bullet will be better if I have a shot that could encounter some cover.

[IATRKYHNTR]

I have a S&W 686 4", I have been wanting to try it on deer here in Iowa, but have been worried about the performance of the 357 out of a 4" barrel, what are your thoughts on this? Our deer run from 175-250lbs+ I would be keeping shots under 40yds, and more then likely in the 20-30yd range.

Thanks,
IATRKYHNTR
Nathan

[Jerry Lester]

Jerry Lester I want to thank you for a concise to the point answer about the 357. I have been having a discussion on another forum about this subject. Would it be ok to use your post verbatim in support of my position?

No problem. I don't consider my self to be any kind of expert by a long shot. I just like tinkering with loads, and finding out what they'll "actually" do in a real life hunting situation. I've never been one to depend on what the gun writers say, or what "seems" to be common opinion among shooters. I've got to find out for certain for my own satisfaction.



IATRKYHNTR,

I don't know exactly what to tell you on using that gun on your deer. Most of our deer here aren't nearly that big. I have killed a few that weighed in the 170-180 lbs(on the hoof) range, but that's not normal for my area.

I can tell you for certain that higher velocity usually isn't the way to get more performance out of the 357 magnum, as far as deer sized game goes. A hard cast bullet will exit on your bigger deer I'm sure, but you'll trade off expansion, which I personally like in the 357(quicker kills). I'm not sure that a 158g SP will exit if it has to plow through a truly big deers shoulder. I know they'll exit if the shot is completely broad side, and it's a text book shot behind the shoulder.

The bullet doesn't "have" to exit for a clean kill. I like for them to, but that's only because in the event they "might" run off through a thicket, there'll be a very good blood trail to follow up. They'll bleed very well out of a 357 entry hole, as long as the shot is low in the body cavity like it should be. I can foresee a potential "bad" case if you're hunting from a tree stand, and are forced to take a high shot into the vitals. If the deer did make it a good ways, the high entry, with no exit would likely leave very little, if any blood trail.

My self; I'd hunt deer the size of yours with my 357s, but I'd be mighty selective with my shot angles, and ranges. I know they'll work well on game that size, but I'd pay special attention to their limitations, and tailor my hunt around that.

[Mohawk]

Very good point, Jerry. I once shot a doe high behind the shoulder with a .280 and the exit and entrance hole were high. Markc, myself, and the two guides took nearly an hour to find the deer. She only went 35 or so yards, it was that thick. Barely a drop of blood. Nearly a 2" exit hole and no blood. When we found the deer and rolled it over blood poured everywhere. It bled inside the cavity without hardly a drop hitting the ground. Hit them low.

[rickyp]

I have a lee mold in in 158 gr swc hollow point that I cast using straight w.w. this bullet shoots real great out of my 10 inch contender.

how would this bullet work for normal deer?

[IATRKYHNTR]

Thanks for your thoughts Jerry, I'll keep all of that in mind. I'm thinking of using my 357 in a late doe season, so the size with be in the 140-160 range. But will also have the Mag ready for action in the shotgun season, if need be. :lol:

Thanks,
Nathan