Author Topic: springfields or enfields? (Read 2205 times)

kevin.303 · « **on:** February 09, 2004, 07:23:26 AM »

i was watching glory on history television last night and saw something that confused me. when the men of the 54th where being issued rifles you see them pry open a crate that has "Springfield" clearly printed on the lid.they then state that they are the 3 band 1853 enfields. i'd have thought they would have been issued springfields these being the main union rifle.(although something like 300 regiments where issued the enfield) so which where they issued?

El Confederado · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2004, 08:44:16 AM »

Kevin,
Very few, I mean chicken lips amounts of Union troops used Enfields. The Enfield was used very much so by the Confederacy and the Springfield by the Union.

Shorty · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2004, 01:31:24 PM »

Can't you just see it? Enfields captured from a blockade runner; issue them to Black troops; Black troops fight Rebels with rifles that THEY paid for! What a gas! :twisted: Not that I beleive it happened. :wink:

Ramrod · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2004, 02:17:53 PM »

well I beg to differ, but the Union had buyers scouring Europe for anything that would shoot, converted Prussian flintlocks, Austrian Lorenz rifles, and YES, Enfields, they often outbid Confederate buyers for the same lots. Alot of second quality English guns were sold this way.

El Confederado · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2004, 02:40:27 PM »

Well ya learn something new every day, good to see ya around Ramrod.

Ramrod · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2004, 03:06:10 PM »

Some good info on weapons from guys who shoot alot of them.
http://www.civilwarguns.com/
There are a couple of good Enfield articles by Tony Beck.

El Confederado · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2004, 04:18:54 PM »

Thanks Ramrod.

nohorse · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2004, 08:00:25 AM »

The northern armaments were not as uniform as you might suspect. Many of the states issued whatever they had on hand in their armories when they formed regiments. This included various weapons including European variants and smoothbores. This continued well into the as related by Grant in his memoirs concerning his troops armament at Vicksburg:

"As Vicksburg 31,600 prisoners were surrendered, together with about 60,000 muskets and a large amount of ammunition. Up to this time our troops at the West had been limited to the old U.S. flintlock muskets changed into percussion... The enemy had generally new arms which had run the blockade and were of uniform caliber. After the surrender I authorized all colonels whose regiments were armed with inferior muskets, to place them in the stack of captured arms and replace them with the latter. A large number of arms turned in to the Ordance Department as captured, were thus arms that had really been used by the Union army in the capture of Vicksburg."

I would supoose the generally new arms which had run the blockade were most likely Enfield manufactured by the various contractors. In addition both US and Confederate buyers competed for Enfields from the various Brittish manufacturers.

dlemaster · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2004, 04:46:48 AM »

El Confed.
Do you have a copy of William B. Edwards book "Civil War Guns"?
It's not very expensive as a reprint now, but well worth the cost.
He devotes a whole chapter on the Enfields that is excellent reading.
He talks about how the Feds were gobbling them up anywhere and any way they could not only to arm Federal troops but to keep them away from the Confederates. There was a lot of sneaky back door dealing to get enough guns early in the war.
The Enfield was the only rifle that the Federal government considered equal to the Springfield, everything else was considered second class or lower. As an example my Great Grand Father who served in the 70 OVI was issued an Austrian Lorenz when he enlisted in Oct. of '61 but just a few days prior to the battle of Shiloh in April '62 the Lorenz's were recalled and they were issued 1853 Enfield Rifle Muskets and carried these till the end of the war.
Edwards give great descriptions on the trials and difficulties that the Confederacy faced in getting arms for their troops.
I know you would enjoy the book.

Regards, Dave

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:03:52 AM »

Just about some of all weapons made to that time were used but not in quanity.The North had better weapons in the Henry[for Cavalry] and the Spencer,the Wentworth as a sniper rifle[Octogoon barrel with Hexagoon bore I have one].

dlemaster · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:13:06 AM »

IW
Didn't the Confederates use the Wentworths for their Sharpshooters?
I wasn't aware that the Federals used them at all.

Regards, Dave

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2004, 05:18:08 AM »

Master you are correct,I had a senior moment,and the story of how they got through the blockade is interesting.

savageT · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:32:06 AM »

Quote from: IntrepidWizard

Just about some of all weapons made to that time were used but not in quanity.The North had better weapons in the Henry[for Cavalry] and the Spencer,the Wentworth as a sniper rifle[Octogoon barrel with Hexagoon bore I have one].

Hexagon Bore?

You want to clerify that one.........How the heck do you load a round in a hexagon barrel? Or are you refering to the number of riflings?

p.s. I know for a fact a local Union Regiment here in Central NY used the Enfield not Springfields.

Jim

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2004, 08:07:08 AM »

I have the weapon pickup off the battle field and it is Hex bore and Oct barrel 44.

dlemaster · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2004, 04:06:07 AM »

savageT
The Wentworth did indeed have a hexagonal bore, the interior was done with a twist just like rifling. The bullet was also hexagonal shaped and elongated in shape weighing about 500 grains if I remember correctly. The bullet had a very good ballistic coefficient similar to the bullets used in Sharps and other long range cartidge rifles used after the war. It is usually listed as being .45 caliber. There was also an artillery piece done with the same configuration.
There is a current reproduction rifle being made, I believe Dixie Gun Works sells them.
During the war a Federal General (whose name escapes me) was killed by a very long range shot from a Confederate sharpshooter with a Wentworth.

Hopes this helps.

Regards, dave

l.cutler · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2004, 01:36:13 PM »

Actually the rifle and artillery piece under discussion are Whitworths. I believe it was General Sedgwick that was killed by a long range sniper at Spotsylvania Courthouse.

l.cutler · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2004, 12:05:58 AM »

I have a little more time to post now. The Whitworth rifle was a .45 caliber round barreled rifle with a hex twist bore. They fired a paper patched bullet that was made the same shape as the bore. They were quite rare even in the Confederate army, the Union had none.

dlemaster · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:12:17 AM »

I.cutler
You are correct in the spelling, I didn't think it looked right but I didn't have access to my books to check it out.
Thanks for the correction.

Regards, Dave