I also read an article that didn't speak to well of the 444 with 265s on American Bison - said you had to hit them a couple of times to bring them down. Said the 45-70 with the 400s wasn't any better. Hmmmm, that's interesting
I have seen stuff in print that stated a man could kill a buffalo as far away as he could see one with a 45-70 way back when. I take that with a grain of salt, a BIG grain :wink:
Admitedly, I can't see that well anymore, but still, I'd venture I could see a buff at 600 yards or so. No bragging, but I have probably shot as much 45-70 stuff as Jack O'Connor has shot the 270 round. On paper, and on game. I will also tell all that I would have a most difficult time hitting a buffalo at 600 yards with a 45-70. That don't mean it can't be done, just saying I know my limitations and that of my guns in my hands. Also, would not opt for the 444 in this scenario either as I consider both close cover rounds. If one doubts that, take a pop at a deer running at a medium clip out around 100 yards. If you hold on the boiler room, you'll blow the deer's kidneys out. Fatal, but not pretty.
I'm also no authority on killing Buffalo as I have but one to my credit. I can say that the one I did kill took 3 hits from a 378 Weatherby with 300 grain A Square deadtoughs before it went down. Is that much gun required to kill buffalo? In that case it was. But I also know that buffalo have been killed quite dead with one shot from a 454 or a big bore handgun. Many have been killed square with a 30-06. So long as the bullet gets in the vitals and reaks havoc, it's a dead buffalo.
For a good spell I got caught up in killing power of guns. And if it wasn't at least 40 cal it just plain was no good. Now why would I make a hair rasing statement like that you ask? Well because my definition of effective is when the trigger is hit, the animal is down dead. The big bores will do that, but it's not just because of the bore size.
You have to have the proper action of the bullet, and you need to be in close to have it work at least 99% of the time. Consider that a GOOD 308 cal bullet like the Nosler Partition or the Speer Grand Slam, or even the Remington Core Lokt, when expanded, will be around .500 to a bit over that. Keep in mind, a 405 grain 45-70 bullet is ALREADY that size when it leaves the muzzle! I have seen the 400 Speers open up near an inch when you gas em up around 1800 fps. That rips a hole that not much walks away from. I have also seen BIGGER holes on the off side of game from 30-06 and 7mm guns using factory ammo.
IMHO, Weatherby was/is correct, speed has much to do with the killing power of a bullet. In my observations, that speed MUST be controlled by the action of the bullet. That's to say, the bullet has to hold together to a degree, else penetration is limited. The other philosiphy is for the bullet to get into the vitals a blow. I'll agree, when it works, it works like the hammer of Thor. But when the shot is muffed, for whatever the reason, you are going to have a wicked time tracking that animal down without an exit wound to drop spoor.
Be that as it may, the 45-70 is slow by todays standards, and that's inclusive of the souped up loads in the No 1 rifles. 2000 fps is not all that fast, and in a 7.5 pound rifle, it will make a flincher out of the best of us.
So is the 45-70 the berries? You betcha! In the right circumstances it's hard to beat. Ditto for the 444 Marlin In heavy timber and brush I'll take either any day of the week. In the open hardwoods or for shooting mountain to mountain there are better choices.
That could be why we NEED 27 different rifles! Ain't it great :-D
Coug
