Author Topic: Sounds like our range is in trouble.... See below... (Read 596 times)

DonT · « **on:** November 11, 2004, 04:14:29 AM »

I was not real sure where to post this so if it would be better moved somewhere else please feel free to do so...

Our Range needs some assitance.

I belong to club located just outside the city limits of St. Paul and Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is located in a small community and has been there since I can remember which is at least 30 years or so.

Here is a link to our Web Site http://www.besamn.org/

Our problem is that we operate under a conditional use permit issued by the community and over the last 5 10 years we have seen a large increase in the number of expensive homes going in all around the clubs property. It appears now that the homeowners are banding together, from what I understand about 200 in all, and are approaching the city council insisting on being involved in determining what the conditions are for the club to operate.

Over the years the club has been forced to:
Eliminate any shooting on Sundays (except for a few Sundays just before deer hunting).
Close during the some Holiday weeks and on all holiday (not shooting allowed)
Reduce its shooting hours to 8:00am to 8:00pm M-F and 8:00am to 5:00pm on Saturdays.
They would not let us shoot muzzleloaders there until just recently (this last year).
We are limited to 350 members and currently have about a 4-6 years waiting list to get in. There are a few folks that have moved into the area but we can't get them in as supportive members due to the wait.

My concern is that this same city allowed another club to open a trap/skeet range in their community, a number of years ago, after all the permits & noise pollution studies were done then pulled their operating permit after the first year because the neighbors complained of the noise. So there is a history.

I am posting this as an individual club member because I am concerned about our club and very active on the internet and felt someone here might be able to provide some direction for help or funding (if necessary). Our board is in contact with the normal folks you would look to for assistance such as NRA.

The normal channel of communications with neighbors have pretty much closed and it has been made clear the direction they want the city to move. Anyone have any other ideas

Thanks for you input.
DonT

PA-Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:40:24 AM »

This is happening all over. New people move in and then they want all the current operations (ranges, farms, livestock) closed because of noise and odors.

1. Get a copy of the USEPA's Outdoor Shooting Range BMP Manual and follow it.

2. See if you can buy noise or pollution easements from the adjacent property owners. However, it's the ones 1-mile away that are causing most of the trouble.

3. You are going to have to start a grassroots Save our Range community group that is willing to attend Twonship meetings. This means you will have to run public educational programs and may have to let non-members in a few day each year for PR reasons.

4. They will be coming after you for groundwater contamination, noise and stormwater runoff contamination. Start thinking about how you can control stormwater runoff! Maybe you can turn this into a high school project. Get the students to help you identify and solve problems.

5. Start thinking about another location and see if you can get the state or township to approve some other lands for you. Make certain that any new agreements allow for groundwater, stormwater and soil lead and heavy metals contamination.

6. Can you control the noise by installing sound barriers or using controlled rounds (low velocity rounds)?

DonT · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:57:48 AM »

PA Joe,

We are open to the public on Weekend thru this last one when we close till May...

We have very little that would cause a problem with storm run off as there is only a trailer and small club house on more than 40 acres. and there is wet lands on the property. None of our shooting stations have concrete pads and only the trap/skeet shooting stations have the typical concrete walkway/shooting stations.

The sound easment is a great idea except this is out a ways where, I believe, they have large lot requirement (like 1 acre minimums) and its these folks with the expensive homes that are creating the stink. Some big money backin em from what I can tell.

The idea of the grass roots group is a good one and I am going to present it to the board....

Thanks.. DonT

.45 COLT · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2004, 02:29:08 AM »

Another approach you might want to consider. If you have 40 acres, you might be able to essentially "secede" from the city. There is precedent for this in Minnesota, I believe in Nashwauk, Itasca County. I don't know the circumstances of that secession, it may not apply in your case. You must have a lawyer or two in your membership, he could research it. If successful, you would still be regulated by the county, but that is usually much less restrictive than city government.

.45 COLT · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:19:21 AM »

Get a copy of the Pioneer Press from Friday, 12NOV04. An editorial is addressing the exact issue you are facing. Might get an idea or two, maybe make a contact.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:53:15 AM »

DonT: we had the same problem at a range I used to belong to. The membership and board of directors caved into the wishy-washy concerns of the owners of a new housing development that went up next door, and they lost out as a result.

They allowed a legal precedent to be set based on preferential use, and got screwed in the process. No shooting until after 10 am or after 6 pm - so much for the workin' man. No shootin' on Sundays, holidays or religious observances. Reduction of the number of high power shooting lanes from 10 to 1, elimination of the 200 yd line, and significantly increased insurance costs for the club. I predict the club itself will probalby become another housing development.

On the other hand, the club I now belong to refuses to set any limitations at all. Night shooting with spot-lit targets is OK until 10 pm, 8 am range opening time, no limitations on range distance. Neighborhood is invited to every single affair, and they love it.

I think the resistance to the regulatory restrictions you now face should have started long ago but at best I think you might be able (hope so) to hold you own at this point. Mikey.