Author Topic: Handgun selection/choice for AK?  (Read 1824 times)

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Offline Mike Bolin

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« on: August 10, 2004, 05:43:06 PM »
On down the road a ways, I am planning a bowhunt for Moose in AK. I will have along with me a 12 ga. loaded appropriately for camp and (hopefully) meat packing chores. Several articles that I have read suggest that you carry a firearm with you at all times. I am a fan of the .41 mag. Ruger Blackhawk. I was wondering-1. do you all feel that the "at all times" is in fact, a fact? 2. would I be wise to upgrade to a .44 mag.? I would be carrying this on my belt in a cross-draw holster, preferably a 4 5/8" bbl. I am concerned somewhat about the weight, but could go with a longer bbl. in .454. I don't really care for the .500 S&W .... a lot more weight than I want drag around..........BUT, what are your suggestions? Thanks in advance-Mike

Offline Rmouleart

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2004, 05:19:35 AM »
Well I was just looking at the wheelguns at Kittery Maine, the revolvers I was looking at are made bye Magnum Research, Nice revolvers for single action and they have some thumpers as well, Marlin 450, 454 Casull, 45/70, 500 S&W and a few others, I'm sure that Marlin 450 would fit the bill just fine for AK, never undergunned;) even less weight than the 500 S&W...
Not sure how hearty they are,but they seem to be well constructed. Using the Marlin 450 revolver , you can just buy the cylinder for the 45/70 bye what I hear. Neat concept, Talk about big bore wheelguns;) Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2004, 06:10:54 AM »
Quote from: Mike Bolin
On down the road a ways, I am planning a bowhunt for Moose in AK. I will have along with me a 12 ga. loaded appropriately for camp and (hopefully) meat packing chores. Several articles that I have read suggest that you carry a firearm with you at all times. I am a fan of the .41 mag. Ruger Blackhawk. I was wondering-1. do you all feel that the "at all times" is in fact, a fact? 2. would I be wise to upgrade to a .44 mag.? I would be carrying this on my belt in a cross-draw holster, preferably a 4 5/8" bbl. I am concerned somewhat about the weight, but could go with a longer bbl. in .454. I don't really care for the .500 S&W .... a lot more weight than I want drag around..........BUT, what are your suggestions? Thanks in advance-Mike



I would not go below a 44MAG. JMO.  :D . I will be going to Alaska on the 27th of August on a Caribou hunt, and I am taking my Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull. It has a cut down 3 inch barrel.  Great as a back up and tent gun. My first choice will be my 300Win Mag though.  :grin:
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Offline Daveinthebush

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Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2004, 06:57:43 AM »
The reasons for having a handgun are many.

Peace of mind.
Always there.
Allows you to fight your way back to your rifle.
Handy in the tent or closed places.

But, almost everyone up here would rather have something heavier. I was out on Hinchenbrook this past week and accidently walked into a salmon stream carrying a .308 with 150's.  Bear trails were everywhere. Remember "The Bear the Won't Die"? He was killed here. I really felt undergunned.  I opted to leave the .44 in the boat to cut weight as we were climbing mountains looking for deer.  I really needed the 870 and Brennekes.

Either way. I'd go with no less than a .44 mag with 300 grain hard cast slugs and lots of H110 behind them.

And practice!  The recoil will change your point of aim from lighter slugs.
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Offline Mike Bolin

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2004, 07:45:18 AM »
Thanks for the replies thus far. I look forward to further input! MIke

Offline KodiakHunter

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2004, 10:52:35 AM »
Whatever you choose, make sure you file off the front sight.  That way, when the bear shoves it up your ass before he eats you, it won't hurt as bad!  :)

Seriously - I wouldn't take ANYTHING less than a .44Mag revolver, with HEAVY loads (like Buffalo Bore type stuff...).

That being said, the best thing I've found is a 12-gauge w/extended magazine tube.  First shot is bird-shot (it's effective at scaring 'em away), and everything after it is high-performance slugs.

I've used the birdshot 2 times - and it worked both - on Kodiak brownies.

Just remember that carrying a gun - any gun - doesn't replace common sense and knowing what is in your surroundings at ALL times!  Keep a cool head and you'll be ok.  Also remember that, if you are charged, you will likely only get one shot before the bear is on you - and you damn well better make it count!
Andy
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Offline Dand

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I use a 41 mag.
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2004, 05:18:19 PM »
I have never had to use it for self defense but I usually have my 4 inch SW 57 when hunting for my tent gun and sometimes while I'm packing meat.  I load it with the Corbon 265 hard cast  or Federal 250 cast core loads, nothing lighter.  If you have confidence in your Black Hawk 41 I'd say carry it.  Bigger bores might be better but I like the packability of this gun - just wish it was stainless.  Phil Shoemaker - Grizzly Skins guide - writes that he set up his daughter with a 357 using 180 hard cast bullets and he spends time in serious big bear country. I believe he feels ability with chosen gun is nearly as important as bore size.  The Winchester 240 gr silver tips might be an option but I haven't shot any yet and would be concerned about penetration.   Many of these bear worries are way overblown here in Alaska - unless you are hunting deer on Kodiak.  I'm a life long Alaskan, will turn 50 this month, hunt alone quite a bit and have only had one bear prowl around my tent and make me nervous - even sat in the brush growling at me. And I've been out there with blood soaked clothes,  and meat nearby. My worst problem was a bear stole some meat from my meat shed at home once I thought I was home free and didn't have to worry. Good luck.
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Offline akbigbore

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2004, 07:18:51 PM »
I carry a S&W model 29 in .44 magnum and prefer the double-action to any single action because no handgun can truly be considered a "bear stopper".  I'm a well trained revolver shooter and the .44 magnum is the heaviest I can shoot and reaquire a sight picture fast enough to get a second and maybe even third shot before I become hors douvre.  I figure I can at least get enough lead into 'im to make me seem a bit less appetizing.  

Swanny

Offline Mike Bolin

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 01:38:07 PM »
akbigbore-you have struck on my main reason for sticking with the .41 or possibly going up to a .44.....I can shoot them well and they are comfortable for me to shoot. I have an email contact in AK who worked as a guide for several years. He carries a "heavily loaded" model 28. Due to a hand injury some years back, it is the handgun that he can shoot acurately without discomfort. Even though he can handle a .44 for a limited amount of shooting time, he is more comfortable with the .357 because he can practice with it more. Thanks for the replies-Mike

Offline Thebear_78

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2004, 11:00:23 PM »
I used to carry a 4 5/8" Ruger bisley in 45long colt with 325gr cast bullet @ 1300fps.  I switched to a S&W 629 4" 44 mag this year because I think the double action would be better for bear defense.  I have been using 300gr cast loads @ 1350fps.  I think the 4" 44 is about the best all around comprimise for constant carry.  I use a shoulder rig and carry all the time.  Its a good practice to be in up here.  Earlier this year a man was charged and shot a bear while walking his dog at the edge of town.  You just never know when you might run across a bear.  The moose can be really mean too.  I have had to talk a few moose out of charging me while looking at them over the sights of my 45.  Usually you can talk them out of it though.

Offline TScottO

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 01:55:02 PM »
I’ve never had my tail in a crack with a dangerous animal but if we were guaranteed that we were going to be in a gun fight then I’m sure a lot of us would choose a more appropriate weapon.

If money isn’t an issue and I was prepared for a worst case scenario and had to be equipped with only a handgun I would go with a Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh with a 6” barrel. Other than that, for the occasional mishap and just a darn good trail gun, I would opt of a nice Smith and Wesson Mountain Gun in 45 Colt or 44 Magnum.

Be Safe,
Scott

Offline summitx

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2004, 02:01:22 PM »
I just picked up a Alaska Backpacker III the S&W 329, it just weighs 26 ounces, heard that it kicks like a mule though

Offline Daveinthebush

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Just think!
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2004, 03:02:01 PM »
Kicked by mule or eaten by bear?
Kicked by mule or eaten by bear?
Kicked by mule or eaten by bear?

I think I am going to opt for kicked by a mule!!! Most people survive that.   :-D
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Offline Winter Hawk

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2004, 09:35:27 AM »
'Bout 30 years ago I worked with a guy who was backpacking off the Denali Highway with a buddy when they were charged by a grizzly.  Roger had a .44 manum, opened up when the bear was 20 yards off with no intention of stopping.  He got off all five rounds in the cylinder.  He reloaded while the bear was killing his buddy, got three more rounds in when the bear came for him.  The bear dropped with its nose at his toes.  All eight shots were in the chest cavity, there were no heart or lungs left on the animal.  Roger traded the handgun in for a .458 Winchester Magnum rifle.  True story.  You can carry the handgun, I'll opt for a minimum .30-06 with 220 gr. bullets.

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Offline Stringer

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2004, 08:25:05 PM »
Not trying to arue or start anything but, why would you ( in a shotgun ) have anything beside a killing round in chamber if you may only get one shot? Just from what I've read and heard warning shots rarely have an effect, has this been the experience of many or few?

Offline Winter Hawk

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2004, 07:06:30 AM »
When I got to Alaska I was told that the "old timers" preferred 12 ga. pumps, the first couple of shells being bird shot followed by solids.  The thinking was that you could shoot small game if you wanted.  In a bear encounter the bird shot in the face messed up its sight and smell so it couldn't find you, then the slugs were to finish it off.  Now remember that slugs back then weren't all that powerful so you might want the bear not knowing where you were so you could reload.  

In a book I read (Nahanni? No Room for Bears?) the author was out with someone else hunting ptarmigan with a single shot when a grizzly charged them.  The person with the shotgun shot it in the face with bird shot, they dove out of the way as it continued its charge, and the bear went over a cliff behind them.

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Offline dawei

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2004, 07:29:19 AM »
Quote from: Thebear_78
I used to carry a 4 5/8" Ruger bisley in 45long colt with 325gr cast bullet @ 1300fps.  I switched to a S&W 629 4" 44 mag this year because I think the double action would be better for bear defense.  I have been using 300gr cast loads @ 1350fps.  I think the 4" 44 is about the best all around comprimise for constant carry.  I use a shoulder rig and carry all the time.  Its a good practice to be in up here.  Earlier this year a man was charged and shot a bear while walking his dog at the edge of town.  You just never know when you might run across a bear.  The moose can be really mean too. I have had to talk a few moose out of charging me while looking at them over the sights of my 45.  Usually you can talk them out of it though.


I am not trying to be rude or fecicious; HOW EXACTLY IS THIS ACCOMPLISHED? [/b]

Offline Dand

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warning or scaring shots
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2004, 07:16:45 AM »
I have had two occasions where my attempts to scare off bears with gunfire was minimally effective.  Both times I had my 300 win mag which makes plenty of noise.

One case was at our dump - was just trying to get a mama bear and 2 cubs to go away while we unloaded the pickup.  3 shots at the ndirt near her feet barely made her back up. One of the cubs tumbled off a dirt pile and that caused them all to move back in the brush for a while.

Second case was along the Nushagak R.  We had meat in our island camp and a bear showed up on the other side of a 20-40 yard shallow channel.  3 rounds fired at rocks near his feet had no effect at all.  He showed no reaction to the shots. He never crossed the channel and seemed to have no interest in us.  He spent the whole night fishing nearby and thankfully never gave a bit of trouble.

A biologist frined of mine speculated that sometimes the bears can't seem to tell where the sound is coming from and don't react like you might expect.
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Offline Cabin4

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2004, 07:27:59 AM »
The Bushwacker in 457 wild west magnum or 50 Alaskan. This is the ultimate bear defense gun.
http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/smallbushwackersplit.jpg

This would be great for the fisherman or at the camp.
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Offline Thebear_78

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2004, 02:35:16 PM »
Dawei-

The main reason that most moose get riled up is that they don't know what you are.   A couple times while predator hunting in full snow cammo I have had cow moose get really aggressive and charge at me because they can hear me but can't smell or see me.  Usually then I will take off my hat and wave my arms, talk to them in a loud, clear, calm voice until they realize that I am a person and not a threat to them.   Usually I just tell them I am a person and mean them no harm.  Several times they have stood less than 15  yards away ears flat back hair all stood up.  So far they have all been "talked" out of doing any damage.   It sure gets teh heart pumping though.

Offline dawei

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2004, 07:28:49 PM »
Quote from: Thebear_78
Dawei-

The main reason that most moose get riled up is that they don't know what you are.   A couple times while predator hunting in full snow cammo I have had cow moose get really aggressive and charge at me because they can hear me but can't smell or see me.  Usually then I will take off my hat and wave my arms, talk to them in a loud, clear, calm voice until they realize that I am a person and not a threat to them.   Usually I just tell them I am a person and mean them no harm.  Several times they have stood less than 15  yards away ears flat back hair all stood up.  So far they have all been "talked" out of doing any damage.   It sure gets teh heart pumping though.


Thanks for answering my question 'in context'. What you said makes a lot of sense. I had a similar experience with a Holstien Bull that I 'surprised'!

Offline Rum River

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2004, 08:39:12 AM »
My 'bear load' for my .45 Colt 5 1/2" Redhawk is a 335gr LBT at 1100 fps.
Would this be considered marginal?

Normally I have a .300 Wby. with 200gr Nosler Partitions at 3000 fps handy, but if all else fail..........
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Offline Dand

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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2004, 09:04:14 AM »
Hey Rum,  if you are proficient with the 45C / 335 LBT and the 300 Wby mag, I'd say you are pretty well armed.

Like several of the other posts here and on the other " bears and hand guns" threads on this forum say, your first and best defense is to be smart, keep your head up and your eyes open.  I'm born and raised in AK (50 yrs) and at least 40 of them spent fishing, hunting and wandering in bear country, I've never been charged, or false charged.  I've had a couple scares with bears prowling my camp area but only a couple times where I felt the need to hold a gun "at ready" or come close to shooting one.
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Offline Camp Cook

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2004, 03:03:56 PM »
When I carry a handgun for defense from wild animals I opt for my 7 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull with 360gr @ 1500fps or 395gr @ 1400fps Cast Performance WLNGC bullets. Yes it kicks but not as hard as some of my 300gr jacketed loads. I used to carry a 5.5" s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero in 45 Colt but wanted a double action for faster reloads if it was ever necessary.
No a handgun is not a shotgun, but when you consider that 1 ounce equals 437gr and that most (I agree not all) 1 or 1 1/8 ounce slugs are only traveling about 1350 to 1500fps there really isn't much difference between my loads and slugs.
I would rather shoot a charging bear with a 45/70 or my new 375Rum than a handgun any day but  may not have them near when I need them most.
Cam
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Offline TennesseeNuc

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2004, 08:13:34 PM »
Mike,
I know you said that you didn't care for the 500 S&W, but you might want to take a look at the new 4" model.  It's a lot more compact than the original long barreled model.  It also seems to balance better in the hand.  I talked with a factory rep the other day who had just finished shooting one.  He said the recoil was no worse than the longer, heavier model.  I would think that the 500 should be enough for a bear problem.
Best,
TnNuc

Offline Mike Bolin

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2004, 05:59:31 AM »
TnNuc-I've been reading about the .500 quite a bit and the 4"er has got my interest. A few more bucks than I would like, but there ain't nothing gettin' any cheaper. Mike

Offline S.B.

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2004, 02:28:48 PM »
Since the original question is about handguns and S&W has the new 500 4" gun, anybody got experience with this one? I've got a M/G in .44 mag that I always thought I'd take to Alaska, if the opportunity arose, but now the new Smith has me thinking bigger?
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Offline Camp Cook

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2004, 04:41:16 AM »
Ruger has just come out with their Super Redhawk in 454/45 and 480 with a 2 1/2" barrel. The barrel ends at the end of the extended frame. I believe they call it the "Alaskan". I can't own one because the barrel is shorter than 4 1/4" which makes it illegal to own or even import into Canada. I have the 7 1/2" SRH 454 and wish that it came in a 5 1/2" barrel because that is the length that would be best for me.
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Offline OrangeWing

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Handgun selection/choice for AK?
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2004, 04:59:55 AM »
Try the new S/W 500 4".  It is balanced real well.  I talked to a couple people that shot it including a lady.  They said it wasn't too bad.  It fits my hand like a glove.  The trigger on them is good from the factory.