Author Topic: temperature affecting accuracy?  (Read 651 times)

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Offline josebd

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« on: November 17, 2004, 01:39:51 PM »
had some .243 loaded up with some h4895 38.5,shot great back in warm weather,shot some in cooler weather wont group with a damn. went up to 39.5 groups came back. anybody else experienced this?rifle was a howa 1500 22" barrel.

Offline quickdtoo

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2004, 01:58:17 PM »
Accoding to Hodgdon, H4350 would be a good powder in their extreme line for the .243. I'm curious if others have had good luck with the extreme powders in varying temps. If your experience is typical, doesn't sound like there is any advantage to the "extreme" hodgdon powders, makes ya wonder.

http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page4.php
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Offline Iowegan

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2004, 03:42:21 PM »
Ah, but there's more to it than the outside temperature. The rifle's chamber gets pretty hot after a few shots have been fired. When you shoot a cold round in a cold barrel, the velocity will be low. As the chamber heats up, the heat will transfer through the brass into the powder (only takes a few seconds). Now you have an initial cold temperature followed up by warm,  then hot temperature. This extreme will make powder burn at a different rate. The hotter it is, the faster it burns. A 200 degree swing would not be unusual. As the powder changes in burn rate, velocity and accuracy can change radically.

Extreme rated powders like Varget and H4350 are designed to produce a more uniform burn rate across a wide temperature range. I've found Varget to be the best powder available for a 223 Rem when hunting prairie dogs. It's not unusual to pop off a dozen rounds in a fairly short time span.  With other powders that produce very accurate groups when shots are spaced every 5 minutes, such as IMR 4895, the chronograph would measure very consistent velocities. With the same powder and the shots are spaced every few seconds, the velocity continues to increase. The chamber pressure also increases as is evidenced by primer flow and difficult extraction. Using Varget under the same conditions produces very consistent velocities and no sign of over pressure.

So, yes josebd, temperature can make a big difference. There is a reference section in Speer Manual #13 (page 719) that has a chart for non-extreme rated powder temperature vs velocity. The typical increase is 200 fps for a 100 degree temperature change. Considering the temperature of the chamber, this could easily double to 400 fps.

P.S. Don't use your "winter" loads in the summer. The increased powder charge coupled with higher temperatures could drive your loads beyond max limits.
GLB

Offline josebd

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2004, 05:04:47 PM »
i thought h4895 was a extreme powder?according to there website it is!

Offline Iowegan

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2004, 07:22:08 PM »
I would try shooting your 38.5 gr loads over a chronograph and see what's happening with your velocity. Try to simulate the temperature conditions and rate of fire. If your velocity is maintaining pretty constant from cold to hot, then you have another problem. If the velocities increase with heat, your powder is not as "extreme" as it should be.

I bought a Radio Shack car thermometer that has a little sensor connected by wire to the display. It has a built-in sensor for "indoor" temp and uses the external sensor for "outdoor" temps. I found it very interesting when I taped the outdoor sensor to the chamber of my rifle. You can easily get a 200 degree difference between the air temperature and the barrel. This might be outside the range of your powder's extreme rating.  If you wait longer in between shots it will give the barrel and chamber a chance to cool down. Also, put your ammo in a pocket next to your body so it stays warm. This will bring the temperature spread down considerably.
GLB

Offline josebd

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2004, 01:37:08 AM »
i shot the 38.5 and i waited till the barrel cooled down betwwen shots and it would not group. loaded up some 39.5 2 out of three were touching.

Offline josebd

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temperature affecting accuracy?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 02:37:38 PM »
well i keep messing with it and it still wouldn't group,took the rings off my scope(weaver rings) and noticed the top rings on the inside  was shiny. took rings off my remington 700,and put them on it,and my groups are back,finally!!!!!!  3 shots .386 group.next time ill know what to check,couldnt believe i had a powder problem,so know i know!