Author Topic: HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!  (Read 1170 times)

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Offline JeffVol

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« on: November 15, 2004, 02:41:02 PM »
I got a new scope and I have had trouble getting my Handi to group in.  Thinking it was me and the inability to get comfortable with my old scope I never got a good group, so I purchased a Bushnell 3200 Elite.  Now I am having the same problems.  I have been shooting Federal 150 grain Nosler and BTSP.  Neither one of them shoot a good group, scattered everwhere.  I am thinking of going to a lighter load 130 grain.  After reading through pages of post ( and going to Wally World) it seems that alot of folks have luck with the Winchester ammo.  Now the question which one, Ballistic Silvertips, Silver tips, or just powerpoints?  Does the lighter load help with accurracy?  My longest shot would 125-150 at the most.  Any advice would be appreciated because I love this gun and I am looking to get mutiple barrels for this SB2.  THANKS!!!!!

Offline MSP Ret

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2004, 03:06:01 PM »
:D , Welcome aboard JeffVol, Nice to have you here. I can't help with the .270 questions since I don't have one. Just the usual things, make sure your scope rail and rings are tight, try free floating the forearm with an o-ring around the forearm lug on the barrel or a piece of business card, place the gun on the bench so the rest is just forward of the trigger guard and by the hinge pin. squeeze the trigger and complete the trigger pull to the rear, check the crown for any imperfections. Try some different ammo and different bullet weights. Make sure your buttstock is not loose. Strive for consistancy in the execution of each shot....Good Luck, I am sure a .270 shooter will chime in at some point....<><.... :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline single shot shooter

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 03:08:03 PM »
mainly everything that jeff seaid. make sure everyhtingis tight and try different types of ammo.
Single Shot Shooter  :D
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Offline cricman

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 04:00:06 PM »
Jeffvol,

I too had a problem getting my Handi in 270 to group.  Do all of the things suggested above, because I really think that they all contribute to improved accuracy.  I think the one thing that helped me was to secure the scope base to the barrel with a thin layer of epoxy, and use locktite on the mounting screws.  The other thing that I think helped in my situation was a trigger job.  It helped me get good, consistant shot releases.  

As far as ammo goes, I tried some Winchester, Estate, Federal, and Remington, and found with my limited experimentation, that the 150 grain core-lokt load came out the winner, shooting just over one inch groups.  I'm going to try some handloads after deer season, and experiement with some lighter loads and different bullets.  I really feel like I can wring out 3/4" groups with my Handi.

Good Luck and be patient,

cricman

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Offline handirifle

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2004, 04:02:02 PM »
jeffvol
Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you shot good groups out of other guns of similar caliber?  I only ask to make sure you are doing your best.  If the answer is yes, then we definately move on towards the gun issues.

Make sure you allow a minute or so between shots, so the gun can cool and you are not rushing things.

Define "scattered everywhere".  Just because you put another scope on it does not preclude THAT scope from being bad.  Make sure the scope is mounted correctly and the base screws are tight as well.  Since it is not grouping I'd suggest removing the base, using something like fingernail polish on them and re-installing the base, then the rings, etc.  Sometimes NEF has sent rifles out with the base screws barely in.
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Offline Longcruise

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 04:52:20 PM »
Quote
Sometimes NEF has sent rifles out with the base screws barely in.


And, sometimes the screw holes for the base mount screws are not deep enough. :shock:   File a bit off the screws if they are bottoming out before the base is pulled down tight.

Offline Varminter

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2004, 10:14:31 AM »
Being one of the few 270 handi owners on this forum i think i might be able to help you. Like everyone else has said make sure you check the base and rings.

When i first got mine the first thing i did was give it a very good cleaning. I don't mean just 5 or 6 patches, oil it up, and your done. I'm talking about a good 30 to 45 minute cleaning or even longer. Once you run the first patch through its gonna come out dirty, so just keep running patches and brushes through it until the last patch you put through comes out as clean as it went in.

Next, I polished the chamber on mine. I took an spent shell deprimed it put a bit through the primer pocket and attached it to a cordless drill. Before putting the shell in the chamber make sure you put JB Bore Paste on the shell. And you procede with the drill.

Now as far as ammunition goes, any handi,no matter the caliber, likes the lighter bullets. 150s are really just too heavy. The 130s do exceptionally well, but if you can find the remington core loks in the 100 grain soft point i would recommend you picking up a box. Some tink the 100 grainers are too small to hunt deer with but there has been people take deer with a 80 grain 243 at hundred yards and they drop on the spot. I would suggest you try any of the factory 130 grainers. Just experiment with what your gun likes.

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Offline safetysheriff

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2004, 02:15:03 PM »
The post by MSP' is a very good start, in my opinion.    I'll suggest just a couple more items to add to his:  remove the 2 sling swivel studs, cover any shooting rest made of leather or suede with something slipperier like denim to allow the rifle to move freely over the bag,  and do not file down base screws if they don't bottom out.    Call NEF to get some other screws AND make sure the holes are tapped all the way to the bottom.    If the new screws bottom out then the hole is not drilled/tapped properly.    

A 'heavy-hitter' like the .270 may not be hard on the recoil we feel, but the recoil velocity can be high with a Handi' in that caliber.    That places a lot of strain on the base-mounting screws to hold everything in place on the rifle.    Don't short-change the mounting system by filing down screws until you know the holes are proper.    

Good shooting to you,

SS'

ps: Oh yeah, the proper 100 gr' bullets out of a .270 -- according to some -- will kill deer like they've been bombed!     And they'll probably do it at 250 to 300 yds......
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline 270Handiman

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2004, 04:44:11 PM »
You're not alone my friend.  I am having similar issues.  Last week I replaced my cheap-o Tasco with a Burris FF2 a spent an hour at the Bass Pro range here in Dallas.  I started off great, but the more I shot, the worse things got.  Funny thing is, I can shoot back to back shots that can be covered with a penny, then the next shot is 3 or 4 inches high and to the right.  Then the next one will be somewhere completely different.  Then, it starts all over again with a couple good ones and so on.  I just found this site Saturday evening, and the good folks here say that the front rest should be between the trigger guard and the stock, but not on the stock.  I'm looking forward to trying this out.  Are your results anything like mine, or something different?

PS - I'm shooting 140g bt's with a moly coating.  But, I have same results with Rem. Gold Box 140's(Whatever they call them).

Offline JeffVol

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Handiman This is what .....
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2004, 04:57:17 PM »
was happening to me as well.  Never any consistency.  Tonight I stopped at the local plumbing shop and bought an O ring.  Also locked down all the nuts around the scope.  Some were loose but not terrible.  tomorrow I am going to clean the snot out of it and then on Thursday I am to the farm shooting 130 grains Winchester Ballistic Silvertips. I will let everyone know how it goes.  Thanks for all the help.  If the 130 don't work then I am down to 100.

Offline handirifle

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2004, 05:38:03 PM »
Jeff
On the "some were loose" issue.  My Savage did that to me after I had mounted a new scope.  The rear screws were a little more than finger tight but the shots were all over the place.  Tighened them down, found out my barrel was hitting the stock, freefloated the barrel and voila!  Now it gets easy 1 1/4" groups.  Probably will do better with another bullet, but didn't have time to research it before.

Loose screws don't have to be very loose AT ALL to throw shots WAY off at 100yds.
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Offline borg1

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2004, 03:48:55 AM »
I have had similar problems with my .270.  i bought 130 gr. Winchester power points and they shot consistently at or under 1.5" at 100 yards.  Thinking a 'better' bullet would provide better accuracy, i bought Federal 130 gr Sierra Gamekings.  THEY SHOT HORRIBLY!  My next batches will be Winchester fail safes and silvertips and/or reloading.   :wink:

Offline Fred M

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2004, 04:55:55 AM »
Borg `
Before you going to waste a whole bunch of good ammo, check out all the loose connections they are spelled out on my web page. "Tweaking the 25-06 Ultra".

There has never been better factory ammo than the present, any one should group good with the right twist. Some better than others but all good. Factory ammo even reaches velocities as spelled out on the box, they can't cheat anymore since most people have a Chrono now.

If your rifle does not reach advertised velocities,then look at the rifle not the ammo.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Longcruise

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2004, 07:35:49 AM »
There seems to be a progressive deterioration in accuracy for the Handi rifles as the pressure specs of the cartridge for which it is chambered increase.  Not talking about your rifle that shoots 1/2" all day but rather the Handi rifles in general.  The higher the pressure, the more severe become the vibrations and general shakin rattllin and rollin of the frame to barrel lock-up.

I agree with Fred on the quality of factory ammo these days but also think that for the most part getting an accurate load for a Handi involves handloading.  There are some factory loads that seem to shoot nearly universally well in the Handi.  The 223 Win Varm Pak is a good example.  OTOH, I've not seen any one factory load for the .270 get raves for near universal accuracy results in the Handi.  There are always going to be reports of exceptional results with a given factory 270 load but I don't recall any getting an overwhelming thumbs up.

My suggestion, once all the loose screws and nuts are tightened, is to handload for the rifle.  If you aren't a handloader, become one.  You can do it for less than $150 bucks.  You are going to spend way more than that on factory ammo trying to find an accurate load, and then the factory load bullet/velocity, etc. may not be ideal for your field application.

Get set up and select a good quality bullet that will provide the terminal performance that you want.  Then pick a powder that is considered to be a good powder for that cartridge and that bullet weight (eg., 130 grain bullet matched to 4350, 4831, RL19 or RL22).  Then select a primer appropriate for the powder/case.  Next, start about 5% below the max recommended load and load five rounds.  Then move up 3/10ths of a grain and load five more rounds (weigh each charge).  Keep doing that until you have loaded five rounds for each increment of 3/10ths grain until your last five rounds are at max.  For the 270, you are going to have 9 or 10 loads or 45 or 50 rounds.

When you shoot these, shoot a few foulers first and then shoot a group with each load starting at the lowest charge and work your way up through the loads.  Let the barrel cool either between groups or between shots (whichever, be consistent) If you plan to clean the barrel during the test, clean after each group and fire a few foulers after each cleaning.  You should do this during ideal weather condidtions.  Mainly, no wind!  If the wind starts up or you get tired and feeling flinchy, stop and continue another day.  Take four or five range sessions if need be!

Fire each group at a different target.  Save the targets.  When finished, compare the groups.  Look for a trend.  Hopefully you will see a tendency for groups to tighten and possibley open with the tightest point being close to an ideal charge for that  bullet and powder.

If there is no improvement in any of the above groups, then something is probably loose or the rifle may not be able to do any better.  You can try the same procedure with other bullet weights and powder combos but, IMO, if the rifle does not show a trend toward better grouping with one or three of the charges tested, you may be wasting your time and money on a rifle that has already shown you it's best.

Others will disagree with the above, but I'll stand by it and recommend you try it.

Offline wt

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2004, 11:05:48 AM »
Quote
A 'heavy-hitter' like the .270 may not be hard on the recoil we feel, but the recoil velocity can be high with a Handi' in that caliber.


I agree. I had a cheap 3X9 Redfield scope that sat on top of a model 70 in 7mm mag. I had probably shot 50-60 rounds through that rifle and never experienced a problem with the scope. I pulled it from that rifle and put it on my new .270 handi rifle.  8 shots in, I knocked out the recticle. Since I only had $200 in the Handi rifle, I decided to splurge and got a 3X9X50 Leupold vxII for the Handi. After bore sighting, 7 shots later I was getting 1 inch groups @100 yds pretty consistently. The "felt" recoil of the mod 70 in 7mm was brutal compared to the Handi in .270, but it is funny that the old redfield busted after only a few rounds on top of the Handi.

Offline Donaldo

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2004, 11:20:41 AM »
You just can't get better advise than what you just got from Longcruise.  Shoot each loading on a different target.  Maybe with a burner like the 270 you might want to just shoot 3 shot groups because the barrel will get real hot.  Like he said, this could take more than one session at the range, don't hurry it.  Also make sure you rest the fore end at the SAME place on the bag each time.  It seems that on most handi's resting out on the fore end causes vertical stringing of the shots.  Probably due to uneven upward  pressure on the barrel.
Luke 11:21

Offline safetysheriff

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2004, 11:42:05 AM »
Quote from: 270Handiman
I just found this site Saturday evening, and the good folks here say that the front rest should be between the trigger guard and the stock, but not on the stock.  

.


I SEE A MIS-UNDERSTANDING HERE, FELLA'S.     The rifle Should rest on the forearm, just ahead of the retainer screwed into the back of it.    Anyplace else gives you a rifle that recoils into an irregular surface and causes the rifle to jump upward spraying bullets into a pattern instead of a group.     The forearm is flatest on the Handi's just ahead of the rifles frame......and it gives you the least irregularity in the rifle reacting with the sandbag or rest.     If you rest the rifle on the frame, under the chamber of the barrel, then the forearm (jutting out a little below the frame like it does....) will hit the rest when the rifle recoils and it will cause patterning.

I wish I'd noticed this earlier in the posting.....but I skimmed the post by one of the guys and contributed to this error myself.

Sorry about that.    

Take a look at a target or a varmint rifle and you'll see a smooth, flat, wide forearm that will rest consistently on a given surface, and will react with recoil in a predicatable manner without any irregularities in it contributing to muzzle jump.      

SS'
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline sureshot2040

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2004, 12:12:24 PM »
i bought a .270 handi abt two weeks ago
put a cheap simmons 8 point 3x9 on it
set it to hit dead on at 25 yards with remington factory 130 psp
hit a gallon jug dead center at 200 yards with it the next day
put one thru the shoulders of a 130lb buck this past saturday
i used locktite on the screws of the scope and so far so good
i did have a .243 handi and went thru two scopes with it and never did get consistent with it.
it made me wonder if there are good ones and bad ones in the bunch
sureshot

Offline Longcruise

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2004, 04:54:20 PM »
Quote
it made me wonder if there are good ones and bad ones in the bunch
sureshot


Methinks you hit the nail right on the head, Sureshot.  Not a popular thing to say in the NEF forum though :shock:  

I own two Handis and have firsthand experience with two others.  My own .223 will not give up much better than 2" on it's best days and usually not that good.  My 30-30 is the opposite and is a pleasure to shoot.  Another .223 of my grandsons is the super light with synthetic stock and 20" barrel.  It shoots pretty good with no effort so far at load development and has the potential of being an moa gun.  The fourth was (gone now) a 308 that was unresponsive.  It may have come around with some further load work but its owner, my son in law fell into a romance with Garands and the .308 handi was sacraficed on that altar :)

Offline sureshot2040

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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2004, 11:10:09 AM »
the sad part abt it was that the .243 was a factory fitted barrel to my old 45-70 handi. i already had picked up a buffalo classic for 200 bucks at the gunshow so i sold the 45-70 barrel on here. so there was no going back from the .243. i have traded guns so much since then i dont remember what i let the .243 go for. i think i ended up with a glock 19 then traded it for a winchester 94 buffalo bill commemorative 30-30 and man she's a shooter and a keeper
sureshot

Offline JeffVol

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UPDATE
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2004, 10:37:46 AM »
I went to shoot on Thursday afternoon.  Dropped down to a Winchester 130 grain silvertip and this gun is a NEW gun.  The adding of an O ring,tightening the scope, cleaning the snot out of it, and the weight drop has me in the 10.   I was amazed.  Thanks for everyones help and advice.  Now if Mr Buck will let try to see how good it is........

Offline safetysheriff

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HELP! 270 shooting crazy!!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2004, 02:55:46 PM »
Good hunting with your new load.

SS'
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.