Author Topic: Buf Classic Sighting in issue (Read 1560 times)

bajabill · « **on:** November 29, 2004, 07:52:02 AM »

A friend got the BC I was looking at, first trip to the range and he had difficulty zeroing in.

With the rear sight at its lowest setting, he is still about 8 inches high at 100 yds. Anyone experience this, if so, how did you obtain a sight in for a zero in the 100-150 yd range.

Fred M · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2004, 10:51:31 AM »

If yo tell me what the distance is between the front and the rear sight, I will tell how much you have to raise the front sight to get a zero sight setting at 100 yrds.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2004, 11:52:29 AM »

Quote from: bajabill

A friend got the BC I was looking at, first trip to the range and he had difficulty zeroing in.

With the rear sight at its lowest setting, he is still about 8 inches high at 100 yds. Anyone experience this, if so, how did you obtain a sight in for a zero in the 100-150 yd range.

bajabill... this is a common occurance simply because they have put the WRONG Lyman front globe sight on the Buffalo Classic. The current Buffalo Classic comes with a 17AUG and it should be a 17A (low profile)

The Williams peep sight is just the wrong combonation for the front globe sights... it works within limits.

NOW, if you want a great combonation within a good budget, get the Lyman 17A along with a Marbles http://www.marblesoutdoors.com/sights/specs/peep.html and order the 009813 peep sight that is made for the Buffalo Classic. It will give you enough rise for semi long range shooting without putting a bunch of stress on the wrist of the stock because you have to put this in with screws right into the wood.

But long ago, when I spoke with James Garrison about what sights would work best on the Buffalo Classic ALL possiblities were discussed. Why they came up with the Williams modern rear peep sight is beyond me. They should have been butt stroked for this... it just aint a dog that hunts.

Fred M · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2004, 05:34:04 PM »

If your rifle shoots 8" high at 100 yards and your barrel is 28" long you need a .062" higher front sight than you have now. Not a lower profile.

If your barrel is 32" you need a .071" higher front sight. That is simple enough. The William peep sight is quite good and solid to steel no wood inletting required like in a tang sight which are fragile in wood bedding.

With a heavy recoiling rifle the tang sight can slam nicly into the web of you hand if you don't watch out. Ouch, the old H&R 12 gauge with the top lever did that. I bent that lever sideways to get it out of the way. Hence the thumb leaver on the new Handi's.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2004, 06:02:05 PM »

Hey Fred ..... how many Buff Classics you set up lately....

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2004, 06:26:48 PM »

Mac.
Why, is there something wrong with my calculations? It's standard for any open sights on any rifle. If you are looking for a short cut you can always bent the barrel down

like some guys do on trap guns when they shoot to high. Don't laugh I have seen it done. I can even tell you how best to do it.

Fill me in on the Classic Buff set up.and why they put a Williams peep sight on if it does not work. I thought that sight looks rather nice on that rifle I saw. No I never set up one nor have I ever shot one. But changed a lot of front sights on target rifles. It is a common practice. You can even get front sights with elevation adjustments to allow for diffferent shooting positions.

handirifle · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2004, 06:36:12 PM »

Lee Shaver, a gunsmith in MO. www.egunsmith.com set my BC up beautifully with a inletted steel plate in the wrist of my stock. It was drilled and tapped for the screws that help the Pedersoli Soule sight.

The front sight worked perfect with that setup but not sure what model it was. Fredd, all BC's from the factory are 32" barrels.

I shot mine with the web of my hand behind the base of the soule sight and shot some loads pushing a 400gr slug over 1900fps. Hurt my shoulder like crazy, but not my hand. It's amazing to watch 200yds downrange when that big slug hits home. And with 1900+ fps it gets there quick.

What a difference from factory loads! :shock:

Ed Hill · « **Reply #7 on:** November 29, 2004, 06:50:06 PM »

The early Buff Classics came without sights, and the dealers would often add them. ( or sell them without) An incorrect front sight height is common. My friend has two Buffs and a target model. only his anniversary model Buff came with a correct sight. Mine is a newer gun and was supplied with a correct front sight. Even so, the gun was limited to 50 to 150 yds as set up from the factory.I assume they mount the Williams sight because they are inexpensive.
E.D.

Fred M · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2004, 07:27:06 PM »

handirifle.
It sounds like you have a beautiful set up with that Pedersoli tang sight.
Even with that you need the proper front sight hight and that is what I was talking about. I saw a target model with the same Williams rear sight and it had a 28" barrel. But the BC has a 32" barrel. That is why I figured both barrel length. I agree it is a nice rifle and the Pedersoli tang sight does add class to the BC, no doubt.

I can just feel the pain on my shoulder just thinking about that monster bullet. Ouch.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2004, 07:44:28 PM »

Quote from: Fred M

Mac.
If you are looking for a short cut you can always bent the barrel down

That reminds me of my trade gun! At blackpowder rondezvous we have a class of shooting called tradegun, smoothbore flintlocks with only a front sight and no set triggers. They shoot roundballs or shot, depending on the shooting trail and rules. The prescribed method of building in elevation is to bend the barrel! Mine was shooting low and I needed a consistent sight picture so I built a jig using shims and a section of "I"beam, using a "C"clamp on the middle of the barrel and various shims under the ends of the barrel, I could build a certain amount of bend into the barrel and control the amount I bent it, and by checking the amount of space between a steel rule and the center top edge of the barrel, I could bend it just a little at a time until I could shoot it and hit 100yd targets consistently with out covering the target with the end of the barrel or the sight. So bending a barrel isn't out of the question! :wink:

handirifle · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:32:42 PM »

Fred the word is HAD a nice one.

I'll try to post a pics. Doesn't seem to work now.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2004, 08:52:53 PM »

Here it is...

bajabill · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2004, 02:25:24 AM »

thanks,

I was guessing that this should be a somewhat common issue since it was so far from alligned. Where can he find a different Lyman sight?

How does anyone get this rig to work with any rear sight that has more elevation than the stock sight, such as the tang sight shown above. Shimming is a good stopgap method, but you should not have to do that to get a gun that is likely to use as a short range hunter to zero inside of 200 yards.

bajabill · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2004, 02:57:47 AM »

found them

http://www.lymanproducts.com/store/page58.html

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2004, 09:49:32 AM »

Quick,
Thanks, what was I doing wrong?

bajabill
It was no problem getting the front sight to work on this setup. Never did anything to it.

In fact, using smokeless loads, it was too tall (rear) for 600yds. Only about halfway up the ladder. I was suprised but the front hood did not interfere either.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2004, 10:24:03 AM »

Quote from: handirifle

Quick,
Thanks, what was I doing wrong?

I think the hypertext needs to link to a Jpeg image, but that's just a guess since I'm new at this too! Photobucket makes it easy as they provide the image URL with tags for ya, all I have to do is save the file on my PC then browse to it and submit it to their server. www.photobucket.com takes new registration at certain times of the day if you're interested in free photo hosting.

Tim

Cottonwood · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2004, 11:19:05 AM »

Heres another shot of a properly sighted up Buffalo Classic

Cottonwood · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2004, 11:26:29 AM »

I have other pictures of a tang that is inlaid into the stock as well as other pics that handirifle sent to me of his tang mounted Soule sight.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2004, 12:39:02 PM »

try Midsouth Shooters Supply:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/search.asp?search=17A+globe+sights&submit=Find+it%21&typ=Any&mfg=00015&dept=Any

or Natchez Shooters supply:
http://www.natchezss.com/cat04/102f.html

Or direct from Lyman:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/sights.htm

As Fred said, since the rifle is shooting high, you have install a higher front sight to bring the point of impact down.

-Winter Hawk-

Fred M · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2004, 12:52:18 PM »

If this is a new rifle with a wrong front sight, send the sight back to H&R to get them to exchange it for the proper .071" higher one. These guys need to be woke up.

MtJerry · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2004, 02:55:31 PM »

I want a peep sight on my 45-70 HANDI rifle. I was leaning towards the williams listed on the NEF site, but the Marbles site look better to me.

My question, which one (model) would fit the Handi? Any ideas?

handirifle · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2004, 03:16:41 PM »

Quick,
I think you're right. I used to be able to post from this site all the time but something changed I guess.

Lee Shaver set the sight up for me as I requested. I had him set the sight up so that it laid back against the buttstock instead of towards the receiver.

The inletted piece, by the way, matched the contour of receiver, and was flush with the wood. Beautiful workmanship and that sight was WAY more accurate than me.

Montanan, thanks!

Cottonwood · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2004, 03:28:09 PM »

Quote from: MtJerry

I want a peep sight on my 45-70 HANDI rifle. I was leaning towards the williams listed on the NEF site, but the Marbles site look better to me.

My question, which one (model) would fit the Handi? Any ideas?

If I were to guess it would be the same model for the Buffalo Classic, but for a sure fire answer contact Marbles directly.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2004, 02:24:49 AM »

Quote from: Fred M

If your rifle shoots 8" high at 100 yards and your barrel is 28" long you need a .062" higher front sight than you have now. Not a lower profile.

If your barrel is 32" you need a .071" higher front sight. That is simple enough. The William peep sight is quite good and solid to steel no wood inletting required like in a tang sight which are fragile in wood bedding.

With a heavy recoiling rifle the tang sight can slam nicly into the web of you hand if you don't watch out. Ouch, the old H&R 12 gauge with the top lever did that. I bent that lever sideways to get it out of the way. Hence the thumb leaver on the new Handi's.

Fred M

Fred unless you have worked on or own a Buffalo Classic please don't give advice that is not founded. NO the base of the tang sight will not slam into the palm of the hand. I have shot many of these rifles with Tang mounted sights including Sharps and Rolling Blocks all having a tang mounted sight that your hand is very close to.

How many here would scope up a Buffalo Classic rifle? I don't think many because it would look god awefull an out of place, just like this William peep sight they installed at the factory. It looks out of place on the Buffalo Classic. The Buffalo Classic needs sights that looks period correct of what it would have looked like back in 1871, not 2004.

What would those sights be Fred M?

Fred M · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2004, 12:24:28 PM »

The Montanan
What looks out of place to you is only your opinion. The factory does not think the Williams peep sight looks out of place nor do I. Besides it is affordable like the rifle. The guy has a Williams peep sight and the rifle shoots 8'' high with the rear sight at the very bottom. He needs a higher front sight that is all. You don't need to own a Handi BC to know that much.

I don't think he ask for a $200 tang sight arrangement plus labor to install it, or else he would not have ask. What are you so touchy about? There is nothing wrong with my advise notwithstanding your comments. If anyone is really serious about a real classic buffalo rifle true to tradition he would buy a Shiloh, set triggers, tang sights, hand lapped custom octagon barrel and a custom Sharps action with a nice Walnut classic stock. Unfortunately most people can only afford a replica.

OK man I take your advise I am off this subject since I know nothing of the Handi BC.

bubba · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2004, 12:59:10 PM »

someday we will all be so wise I hope.

bajabill · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2004, 06:01:28 AM »

He ordered a taller lyman front sight, not the 17 variety though, I think he said it was a 20, it is .2 taller than his. His current one is the tallest 17 shown on the lyman page.

This new one is taller than he needs, but will just accomodate that by being more towards the middle of the ramp on the rear williams sight. He has no intention of zeroing the gun in at 400 yds so he may not have an issue there.

Thanks for your inputs everyone. I am a little dissappionted in the out of the box situation with his rig, hopefully it is not too common of an occurance. He is happy with his course of action, and I want to shoot the beast, then get my own sometime.

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2004, 06:43:13 AM »

bajabill
For what it's worth, mine was not the correct front for the rear factory setup but it was never an issue to me cause I was going to use a tang sight anyway.

Not sure who does their calculations at NEF but he needs to be in another line of work. :wink: