Author Topic: HM2 OR HRM?? (Read 1029 times)

goose7856 · « **on:** November 12, 2004, 07:18:49 AM »

Need some help deciding....I have decided that if I am going to shell ou $300+ I am going to get a CZ......so....I will use it going from plot to plot in between deer hunting "sessions", and hopefully be able to make myslef a better shot.....the largest animal I can see myself shooting is a raccoon, maybe a bobcat......but I will mainly be using it on squirrels and the occasional rabbit.....I guess in the long run the cheaper HM2 ammo is a plus, but its something that comes with the puchase of the rifle.......I also want to try and sharpen up my skills with long shots at Armadillos.....they are a real pain in LA and they are everywhere....

I know I can get 5 yards from them....but I think trying to shoot them at 150 is better....kinda get me really for that big buck at 250!! :eek: :lol:

so which would be a better option for me......and what would be the efficient shooting distance of each??

TIA!!

DonT · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:09:49 AM »

If those are the rounds you have settled on and since you are looking at "possibly" shooting out to 100 yds + and since you have included coons and cats in the list I wouldn't settle for anything less than a .17 HMR.. Personally I think the Mach II will give you to many "wounded can't find em" in the coons and cats department.

DonT

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:12:05 AM »

Geez, Goose! One gun for all that and you want it quiet, too! Oh, that's another thread.... :lol: I don't know how tough armadillos are, but I'd suspect they aren't easy to kill at 150yds with a rimfire. If you limit your shots to a shorter range on the armadillos, the 17hmr would be good using the 20gr XTP or Gamepoint rounds. They are also not explosive on squirrels like the Vmax and to a lesser degree, the TNT HP. The 17M2, OTOH would be a great squirrel and rabbit round, especially since you can shoot the 17 aguila round in it, those that have used it on squirrels love it. I supposed it would do on the armadillos if you really limit the range.

ps.... Have you ever considered one of the Rifle/shotgun combos? Used, they might fall in your budget.
http://www.savagearms.com/24f20.htm

goose7856 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:27:21 AM »

quick.....already got a shotgun, dont need another one!!

Surprisingly, amradillos really arent hard to kill at all...i guess the name would suggest they have "armor" but it basically just looks like that....I guess it is a little tougher than just skin, but not by much, and if you shot one, I doubt it would even move....it would probably just run in circles, or drop dead...they are really stupid...ive tried to catch them with my hands b/f....hm....any other opinion??!!

TIA

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:51:54 AM »

If I were in your shoes, I would go for the CZ452 American in .17hmr for a walking rifle, or the Varmint if you will be limited to a stand. It will take all of the game you are after if shot placement/wind/range is correct for the particular game you shoot. Head shots on the rabbits and squirrels to save meat and using the controlled expansion bullets I've mentioned on the harder to kill critters. If the XTP or Gamepoint shoot real good, just use them all the time, but keep in mind that the cost of the .17hmr is going to reduce the amount of shooting you'll be doing lest you have an unlimited income for a young man of your age. The .17M2 has some merit in the cost being only $5-$6 a box compared to the .17hmr's $8-$10 a box. If you go with the 17M2, I think taking on a bobcat may be a mistake lest you can get a good head shot on em. The .17hmr will dispatch a cat at 40yds with a good lung shot, seen it done.

goose7856 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:56:25 AM »

BTW....Is a 10 oz trigger too light for hunting??

A guy at RFC has offered me either a CZ Varmint or American (cant remember which) for $325.....it has 150 rounds put through it.....shoots 1/4 inch (5 shot groups) at 25 yards.....his friend is in the body shop business or something to that extent, and put a gloss type finish over the stock.......he said it is in 99% condition, and he said he really likes the wood finish.....he has also adjusted the trigger, or had some work done to it, and it is set at 10 oz......how is the price, and all the other goodies included??

I will be getting somepics soon when he gets back in town, and if I can figure out how to post a pic on here, ill let yall check it out......

As it is now I have another offer for a CZ Varmint in HMR, I think for $325 also.......ill try and post the pics, or just give the website address...to see what yall think.....if you look close to the HMR pics, it looks like the wood is beat up in a few spots, but other than that, looks like a very nice rifle!!

Let me see if these work!! (nvm i dont know how to post a pic!!)

http://gmail.google.com/gmail?view=att&disp=inline&attid=0.1&th=10025cf9d7b21122

http://gmail.google.com/gmail?view=att&disp=inline&attid=0.2&th=10025cf9d7b21122

http://gmail.google.com/gmail?view=att&disp=inline&attid=0.3&th=10025cf9d7b21122

again, those pics are for a gently used CZ Varmint HMR.....any thoughts??

goose7856 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:03:41 AM »

yea if I see a cat on the ground, I think I may just let him walk!

(unless I can get a good lung shot, or head shot)!!

It sounds like the HMR is the way2go......the thing is.....i wont be shooting it THAT much.......i would probably bring it everytime I go hunting in the winter....and whenever I go in the summer.....either way.....I would more than likely only shoot MAYBE a box of ammo a YEAR.......Maybe slightly more since I would have to sight it in.......

OH yea quick.....im still interested in the Mueller....when I get the CZ, you can consider the Mueller sold (as long as I still have anough cash)

I am thinking that if the HMR is the way2go then whittaker's would be a better chocie than to buy a used one.....inless he can get the price down to about $250, then I would consider the used HMR.....I can see why the price on the HM2 is a little higher since it has had some work done to it....thanx for the help ever1, and keep it coming....im so close to making my decision!!

mjbgalt · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:08:51 AM »

yeah right, a box a year, just like people can quit smoking. and the 17 is every bit as addicting.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:10:02 AM »

Those links don't work, they require sign in. The trigger on the CZ452 is adjustable, if it's set at 10 oz, it's probably got a modified spring and or sleeve installed. The adjustment weight can be increased if it's not already maxed out, a Brookie kit for $15 will fix it if is. 10 oz is lighter than I like for a hunting gun, 2.5lbs is probably a better weight, although I have been known to go lighter sometimes with the right gun. 1/4" at 25yds is not real world accuracy for a seasoned CZ452, that's closer to an expected group at 50yds. 100yd groups should be in the 1/2" to 1" range, mine being closer to the 1/2" than the 1" at .6-.7". If the stock is somewhat beat up, I'd think twice about it, what's happened to the rest of it if the stock has been abused.

goose7856 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:26:26 AM »

good poitn about the stock.......it just looks like it has some scratches on it....how do you post a pic....id like to see what your think, they are some really nice pics the guy took??

goose7856 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:32:16 AM »

I am being serious about the slightly more than a box of ammo a year....i dont have many places to shoot, but i guess your right.....i could probably go through about 20 a day, just shooting at crows, and "armadillos", and other things....but even at that pace......thats about $25-30 a YEAR for me to shoot my gun......shoot, the ammo for my rifle I just got was $55 for two boxes.....I got the Hornady Interbond Light Mag. stuff, very nice looking bullets, alot better than the BTSP's I am using right now....so I dont think ammo prices are a huge deal.....if it does become a problem, can you reload HMR shells??

Thanx

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:07:12 AM »

The sticky in the Questions about Forums forum tells you how to post pics. Here's a direct link...
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=36393

You might as well plan on buy several boxes of ammo, (1) to find out what shoots best in your particular rifle, and (2) to break in the barrel. It's gonna take at least a couple boxes, more likely 3 or 4 to get the best accuracy out of a new barrel. The CZ's hammer forged barrel is nice, but still requires some rounds down the tube to get great. I use Varmint Al's break in method without the moly bullets. Once you find what ammo it likes best, buying more of that ammo with the same lot number is usually prudent, although hunting accuracy isn't quite the same as target accuracy, it's still a good confidence builder knowing how well your rifle shoots.

http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Break

Rimfire ammo can't be reloaded.

goose7856 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:30:50 AM »

the pics wont work...too bad.....they were too big.....

yes i understand about the break in porcess, but I dont want to just go shoot 5 boxes of ammo...I will find which works the best, and then stick with it....but I dont want to break in the barrel....accuracy is awsome, but i dont want to waste my money shooting paper....id rather break it in shooting at actual live targets.....as long as it will stay under an inch at 60 yards or so, and the creatures are hit where I want...idc AT THAT TIME....im thinking I should just get better groups as the barrel is broken in......

Thats weird that some barrels need to be broken in..my Rem. 700 ADL was just like I wanted it from the very beginning......nv had any problems just shot 15 times to get it dead on where I wanted it, and went hunting....no "breaking in" neccessary....are rimfire guns different??

Thanx

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:49:19 AM »

It just depends on the level of acceptable accuracy you are after. Big game accuracy is different than varmint accuracy, the size of the animal you hunt is diffferent. Most Deer hunters will accept a 2"-2.5" groups at 100yds, most factory guns will do that, but not all will shoot 1" or smaller out of the box. How big is a squirrel's head? The tighter the group your rifle will shoot, the better chance you have of making a good hit under field conditions since you aren't going to have a bench to shoot from. Practicing offhand shooting is good, but it's gonna be quite a bit more expensive shooting a hmr of any kind. Do you shoot a 22Lr a lot?

goose7856 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:56:35 AM »

no i dont own a .22lr........this is what I want to get instead......that is why I have put so much thought into this decision....thats also why I am thinking about the HM2 so hard, b/c it seems to be the best of both world's.....maybe I should just get a Marlin 981T, and be done with it.....or get a Marlin 60......idk, any suggestions??

THANX

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 12, 2004, 12:37:18 PM »

I think that between what everyone here and at RFC has mentioned to you, you have all that you need to know to make a decision on what will fill your needs best. All you have to do is decide. We can't make that decision for you, suggestions have already been made. A good shooting 22Lr would probably be the best for you considering the cost of the rifle and ammo. It's what everyone before 2003 started with, before there was a 17hmr or 17M2, and I for one was real happy with a 22Lr, cheap and fun to shoot. You can always get a .17 sometime later.....And BTW, Happy Birthday, albeit a little late1 :-D

goose7856 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2004, 01:18:38 PM »

thanx quick......i think it is time fore me to weight the choices and comes up with some kind of decision.......

im willing to deal with the higher ammo prices but I dont think I want to pay 8-10 dollars a box for HMR.......I can deal with $6 for the HM2 but, I think that would add up to be too much in the end.....

Okay...sry im kinda thinking out loud......so that gets rid of the HMR.....so now its down to either a .22 or a HM2....hmm...either way, Im getting a good one

If I go the .22 way I will probably go with the Thompson Center Benchmark....but for a HM2 the CZ is the option im thinking would be the best........sooooo0o00o0o0o00o0o0......ammo prices are about $2 for .22 and $6 a box for HM2, but the HM2 can shoot at least 50 yards farther and probably more....

Ok, so I have one final ??.....is any manufactouring company thnking of coming out with a heavier grain weight for the HM2?? More like 20-25 grains rather than 17??

Thanx, and thanx quick...its been a nice b-day, and I havent even gotten a gun yet!!

BillP · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2004, 06:13:37 PM »

If you don't own a 22 LR than that is what you should get first. The most important reason for this is that unless you have money to burn, it is the only gun you will shoot enough to learn how to be a good shot in the field.