Author Topic: .458 Jackets (Read 1997 times)

Lead pot · « **on:** January 02, 2003, 06:14:02 PM »

I use .45 ACP cases for .458 jackets with good results.You have to run them through .458 bullet reducing die then seat your core and form the nose.It beats forming jackets from copper tubing.Lp.

Donna · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2003, 01:46:37 AM »

Hello Lead Pot,
How is the performance of those bullets made from the .45 ACP cases? I know its only brass and brass is relatively soft but I’m still thinking that a bullet made from a case like that might be a bit hard on the barrel. Have you found that it hurts the barrel any or do you find that it shoots like any other jacketed bullet? Thanks.
Donna :-D

Lead pot · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2003, 11:00:10 AM »

Hi Dona..I shot them in the Pedersoli a lot.The acuracy was verry good,every bit as good as the copper jackets.From what I can tell by just looking without a bore scope I cant see any damage.By judging by the groupes they hold tight.My guess is that I shot about 500 more or less.I dont shoot jackets in any of my other blackpowder rifles,so I cant give you any more information on what they do to the bore.
In the large bores i guess they use solid brass for the large dangerous game.
I even used the aluminiun cases with good results,but I found them fouling the barrel some..Lp.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2003, 03:08:03 PM »

Yo Leadpot -

I'd not before this considered the .45acp for the .458 inasmuch as the diameter is about .473 to .480 which would require much forming (which I had not considered at the time).

How much effort does it take to bring to the right size? Do you get much distortion? Do you anneal before or after? Do you size and then swage in the core or do you do it all in one step?

Curious as a cat,

Lead pot · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2003, 03:26:53 PM »

Cat Whisperer>I use a Walnut Hill and corbins csp-1 swaging presses.I dont have any problen squeasing them down.I dont know if a Rockchucker or even my RCBS bigmax would even do it.I swage jackets from 1/2'(.500) .035 wall thickness copper tubing,I size them down to.456.That .45 case gives me a nice.885 long jacket.Lp.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2003, 03:51:43 PM »

Lead pot -
I assume by what you're saying that the two presses have much greater leverage than the standard heavy-duty reloading presses. Of the two you mentioned, the Walnut Hill and the CSP-1 which would you recommend - and why. What things do you like about each and for what functions?

Thanks,

Lead pot · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2003, 11:07:16 AM »

Hi Cta Whisperer>I will tell you why I have a Walnut Hill swaging press,and press from Dave Corbin.I have geen using a old Herters 9 ton swage press for going on 40 years and a C-H swage o matic,but I wanted to upgrade to a better press-die combination so I got a Corbin csp-1,But I spent to much down time because of bent or broken stop pins.It's a poor design,It's a bad weak point in the press and Dave told me it's the way I use the press.Well I started to check with others that use the press and found I was not the only one having that problem regardless what Dave told me.When I swage the .308 or the short .44 pistol bullets there was no problem with those.only with the long .458 bullets.Now Corbin has a upgrade for that press and all the punches the upgrade cost's as much as a Wallnut Hill press from REC Co. The Wallnut Hill press is a verry good press,well build.It has an ejection pin like the Mega Mite press.Dont get me wrong Corbin makes exelent equipment and I will still buy and use it.But press for press the Wallnut Hill is a two thumbs up press,and Richard is a verry eazy man to talk to when you have a problem or when you order.LP

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2003, 02:02:56 PM »

Leadpot -

I much prefer to have more leaverage than too little. Would it be possible to take a generic press (arbor, Schmidt, et al.) and adapt it to a given brand of swaging dies? Cost is not the issue here, functionallity and potential dual use of the press for other machine shop functions is.

9 ton eh? How does that compare with the capacity of the other presses mentioned?

Can I also assume that the sizing dies used in lube-sizers are at best marginal or weak compared to the strengths needed for serious bullet swaging? I would think that if stresses too much they would split - right or not?

Lead pot · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2003, 02:58:03 PM »

Cat Whisperer.
I dont know if that old 9ton press would generate 9 tons or not.I know at times I had to put a cheater on the handle and all thet would do was fragment the nose punches.
I guess if you can make adapters to fit the dies and nose punches to fit a arbor press, I dont know why it wouldn't work. but I would guess you would have to go with the heaver hydrolic dies If you figuring on using more force than what the wallnut hill press would do. Why not just go with a good press?
I will tell you swaging is time consuming,and you can buy a lot of bullets for the money you invest in swaging equipment.I started dooing it at a time when you could'nt buy a large .458 or.459 diameter jacked bullet so I had to make my own,and I still do I enjoy doing it,but if you want to save money doing it the payback is a long way down the road.
If you really want to do I would call Richard at RCE and order what you want.If you want more force get the hydrolic press or convert one.
I cast more bullets then i swage I have enough moulds for just the .458 and .408 to start a used mould businessand some I wich I still had I used to have a old Ideal Perfection hollow base adjustable 7 lube groove mould I dont know what ever hapen to it,I guess I loaned it out and it didnt find its way back home but it shot better than any of moulds I have now.I guess Cat Whisperer what I'm trying to say, a good cast bullet is just as good as a swaged bullet unless you want a special bullet.Lp.
I forgot to mention a lube die would fragment if you wanted to use one ,and asfar as more force, swaging a .458 is no differant than sizing a case in a loading press

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:24:43 PM »

Thanks, now I've got a good comparison to the amount of pressure needed (compared to sizing - I've had to replace oak table tops from resizing 300 magnums a couple of times). Maybe that's why I like the .458WM - straight wall case with little sizing ever needed and when it is it is very mild.

My perspective is different than most, again it is not to simply get X equipment and turn out bunches of bullets - it is more exploratory and experimenting. Therefore if I can crank out at most a few hundered jacketed 300 grain plinkers for the .458 out of .45acp I'll do that and move on to something else. That's why I'm considering the adaptation of a heavyduty reloading press or of something more industrial that I can modify further on down the road.

I'm also very familiar with geometric dimensioning and tolerancing and have taught that course many times in our local community college to both designers and tool and die students. Hence, I have some (very minor) exposure to tool and die work and have spent some time in industry designing tooling.

So, the pieces of information that you've given have given me a good perspective, comparing generally the industrial processes with the specific operations of bullet swaging.

So my first experiments will be very simple - taking the .380 case and making a high-velocity wadcutter for the .375WIn and .375 H&H. That's simple enough to be (hopefully) economical and fast. Putting something in front of that blunt end will follow - and all the issues of fitting shape and size to the forcing cone and so forth.

Thanks,

Lead pot · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2003, 03:47:44 AM »

Cat>If you are making .380 Just get the Jackets there cheaper than .380 cases.Corbin,RCE.C+H,make dies for the loading press like the rockchucker or the big maxA-4 RCBS.And if you are going with the swaging press CSP-1 can also be used as a loading press.
The loading press dies are ok for swaging 1/2 and 3/4 jackets with soft lead but they wont handel the hard lead or full jackets.LP

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2003, 01:04:14 PM »

Leadpot - again my different perspective, the .380's are all those D(^*&^(& cases that are not the 9mm's that I pick up at the range to reload. Now I have a use for them! When I run out of them, I'll get into the .223's and set up a collet and cut them to a standard length on the lathe.

Back to the technical questions. One of strength. When I make the die for the 'loading press' it will start at the bottom with 7/8-14 thread and increase in size above that to an inch or so. That way I can have a hardened rod attach in place of the shell holder and feed/remove the swaged bullets at the top just above the press.

I'm thinking of starting with 4140 prehardened to start with - do the machining and having it hardened to Rc 40-44 or so for hardness and strength. Since the 4140 is 100k + psi tensile strength to start with I think I'll be in the right range when it's hardened.

Thanks again,

BUTCH HAIRFIELD · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2003, 12:50:37 PM »

what kind of jackets are you looking for

?
i make a .030 and .020 wall jacket from .5 to 1.5 inches long you spec. the lenght. cost is between 7 and 9 cents each depending on the length and wall thickness.

let me know if you are interested

butch hairfield