Author Topic: tell me what i need (Read 1194 times)

TScottO · « **on:** August 06, 2003, 05:50:43 PM »

I have thousand bucks to put into casting equipment. Tell me what I need to get set up with good quality equipment: name brands, reading material, types of equipment etc. I know very little about casting and need your help getting started on the right foot.

First off I want to set up for the 475: then I'll move on to the 41 Magnum, 44 magnum and .45 cal. Also what do I need for determining bore diameter for each of these calibers? Is there a kit with different size slugs available for slugging my barrels?

The 475 and 45 cal bullets will have to be cast for FA cylinders. In the 45 cal I have both the 454 and 45 Colt cylinders.

I'm in need of a shopping list. Any help will be well thought up and appreciated.

I usually order equipment from midway or brownells. Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Good luck and be safe.
Scott

Johm D M · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2003, 07:03:42 PM »

Answer the following questions first: Why do I want to cast? What do I want as the end result? Do I have a source of metal that is duplicatable? How much time do I have to devote to this? Do I enjoy reloading or is it just a means to shoot more? If you only want to cast to get more cheap bullets you are losing if you value your time a 75@ per hour. If you want a better product, with repeatable accuracy and are willing to spend the time necessary I would look at spending 20$ for a Lee mold, their 10 lb pot for 40$ a lubrisizer now or Lees push through sizing die and 50 lbs of wheel weights. If you still want to do it after you have shot the 50 lbs, My choices would be RCBS 20 lb pot and Lubrisizer for their warrenty, RCBS and Saeco molds. If you want to spend as little time as possible casting look at Magma but I believe that their molds are set up for production rather than making the most accurate bullet. Get the Lyman cast bullet manual #3, RCBS cast manual and look for older Lyman manuals previous to 41 that had shooters send in their loads. Find every web site that deals with cast bullets and read the back pages. [Start with Shooters] my 10@ Gianni.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2003, 12:05:30 AM »

if you want top shelf stuff buy a rcbs or magma melting pot a star sizer and talk to ballistic cast, Rob Applegate and moutain molds about molds that will work in your FA guns.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2003, 02:00:19 AM »

Jeez, Louise!!!!!!!!!!

I'm happy casting on nickles and dimes.

Billy Marr · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2003, 02:25:37 AM »

I am with Lloyd.

TScottO · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2003, 01:28:00 PM »

Magma 40# melting pot..........$395.00

Magma/Star lube-sizer..............175.00
Sizing dies..................................32.00ea
Punch.........................................12.50ea
Heater........................................85.00
Air pressure adapter..................85.00
Bullet Feeder..............................95.00
Bullet feeder tubes......................4.25ea

Are there any of these items that you would pass on? The heater is only for hard lubes? Will the air pressure adapter make a big difference?

I like the looks of Magma. Their products are maintainable and are not throw away items once broken. The 40# melting pot is the smallest pot they offer. Is bigger better when it comes to melting pots?

About molds: How many cavities do you suggest?

Lube: Homemade or store bought? What kind?

Lead and Alloy: Is there a large variety of this stuff? What would be the best to get my feet wet with? I want my bullets hard, but Id rather them deform before breaking or chipping.

If there is anything I have left out please add it to my list.

Thanks,
Scott

HL · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2003, 09:58:59 AM »

The only thing I can answer for from personal experience is to use LBT blue lube. Mr Smith has it in blue and commercial blue if you have a heater on your sizer.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2003, 10:19:24 AM »

If this is for personal use only, the equipment list looks like massive overkill to me. Looks about right for the start of a part time business.

For personal use, I'd spend most of that grand on moulds and a lot less on machinery. Myself, I want nothing less than four cavity moulds for pistol bullets.

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2003, 01:08:03 PM »

re-read John DM. Talk to casters in your neighborhood and decide whether you are going to use a ladle or bottom pour pot. Bottom pour? then look at RCBS and Lyman. Ladle? Even Lee has a couple of pots that will do for a long time. Find the mold you like and follow that manufacturers instructions. Sizing? Lee push thru is fine to start with. If you like it and start to get other molds and want production get a Star sizer. I would save up for the Star and bypass the Lyman and RCBS. Too many pieces to buy, too slow. After you've cast enough to get this far, you'll know what you need. If you go slow, it can be fun and educational. Trying to get in too deep, too fast for high production can be very frustrating.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2003, 01:53:16 PM »

for a beginner Id throw out the air pressure adator the bullet feeder and if your casting in a heated room the heater. You only need a heater for hard lubes and there junk anyway. again for a beginner Id stick with two cavity molds until you get the hang of casting. Wheel weight is all you need to get started. Worry about alloys when you get the basics down.

Quote from: TScottO

Magma 40# melting pot..........$395.00

Magma/Star lube-sizer..............175.00
Sizing dies..................................32.00ea
Punch.........................................12.50ea
Heater........................................85.00
Air pressure adapter..................85.00
Bullet Feeder..............................95.00
Bullet feeder tubes......................4.25ea

Are there any of these items that you would pass on? The heater is only for hard lubes? Will the air pressure adapter make a big difference?

I like the looks of Magma. Their products are maintainable and are not throw away items once broken. The 40# melting pot is the smallest pot they offer. Is bigger better when it comes to melting pots?

About molds: How many cavities do you suggest?

Lube: Homemade or store bought? What kind?

Lead and Alloy: Is there a large variety of this stuff? What would be the best to get my feet wet with? I want my bullets hard, but Id rather them deform before breaking or chipping.

If there is anything I have left out please add it to my list.

Thanks,
Scott

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2003, 04:03:39 PM »

I dunno where this idea came from that one or two cavity moulds are easier came from, especially two cavities. I used them for years because that was all I could get and I struggled. One cavities have their place for rifle and other high accuracy applications. Two cavities are not only nearly as slow, they have the vice of all multi-cavity mould in that the cavities are not identical.

Eventually, I came into a nicely broken in (read well-used) Lyman four cavity and I never looked back. I had to cull, but I had to cull anyway. One bad bullet was no longer a wasted cast. I no longer spent two hours casting for every hour on the range. (I was shooting PPC at the time and you go through some bullets doing that.)

Then I got some 4 cavity aluminum block moulds from P&C and NEI. My production rate just soared. No more dumping the first six or eight casts straight into the sprue bucket, preheat on the pot, two casts into the sprue bucket and watch them good bullets pour out. By that time I was running two Lee ten pound bottom pours with one heating while I was casting from the other.

Then Lee came out with six cavity aluminum moulds for the price others were getting for a one cavity mould. I ain't worn one out yet and my bulk cast, hastily inspected .38 WC shoot 1"-1.5" groups at 50 yards from a Handi Rifle. I plain don't need any better bullets than that in a pistol and I doubt that many other folks do either.

As a side note, when I started using Lee pushthrough sizing dies, my group sizes shrank dramatically. Bullets sized that way still don't shoot quite as well as the ones I can shoot as cast, but I don't get the fliers I get with bullets run through a Lyman or Herter's sizer. Never used a Star so I can't speak to that. A good many serious shooters of cast rifle bullets will no longer use anything but the Lee push through.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2003, 04:12:32 PM »

Starting out use wheel weights with 2% tin added. Clean up and and alloy the biggest batch you can at one time. In the beginning you don't need to worry about whether inconsistant results are your alloy or you. That little bit of tin can make a big difference in the casting qualities. Some batches of WW don't need it, but that ain't a call to make when you are starting.

And, for God's sake, don't try to clean up WW in your casting pot. You'll be forever getting the crud out.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2003, 12:32:45 AM »

I personally cant justify buying a 4 cavity mold in a bullet design that I havent allready proved is accuate in a gun. Ill first pick up a 2 cavity and if it works in my gun I then look in the future to a 4 if its a bullet that i know i will shoot alot. I can then keep the 2 cavity for a back up or use it for trading material. Ive allready bought a couple of expensive multi cavity molds that my guns didnt like and you take a big hit on the resale. Also the 4 cavity molds are a little tougher to get to temp especially the steel ones and once up to temp are a little trickier to keep to the right temp to get consistant bullets. Its not a big difference but for a beginer its just another variable to deal with. I am into quality more the quantity. Id rather have 200 bullets that weigh within a grain then 2000 that vary within 5. Single cavity molds are slow but ive found over the years that you cant beat them for consistant bullets.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2003, 09:46:02 AM »

What's quality?

I measure the quality of my cast bullets by whether they will do what I need them to do in my guns. I once shot PPC seriously. Considering the demands of that discipline and the limitations of my guns and shooting ability, bullets that would group into 2" at 25 yards from my 686 in a Lee Machine Rest were perfecftly acceptable.

There was no need for me to spend time that could be better used in improving my shooting skills in trying to make more nearly perfect bullets. Whether they were uniform to one grain or ten was irrelevant. They were shooting way better than I was.

Someone shooting a .380 pocket gun or a surplus 1911 doesn't need perfect bullets. He needs bullets that will feed, give reasonable accuracy, and won't lead. "Pretty good" will do him fine and anything more is a waste of time and money. There are mighty few pistol shooters outside of Shillouette and serious bullseye who need any better than "pretty good".

Rifles and quasi-rifles are a different story.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2003, 02:23:03 PM »

I live in the great white north and winter time gives me plenty of time to cast as when the snow is 4 feet deep the shooting opertunities are limited. Dont get me wrong I cast with plent of multi cavity molds. When I find a bullet that my gun likes i waste no time aquiring one. I totally agree that for most shooting tasks any bullet that looks good will shoot good enough for just about any application. I just feel that a begining caster ought to take all the hastles out of the casting process until he gets some bullets under his belt. I stated with cheap lee molds and destroyed a few of them. But it was a learning experience. Now most of the molds I buy are top shelf and i woulnt lend them to someone who is just starting casting. I think a beginning caster should start with one at least good quality mold and take his time until he learns all the tricks.

Quote from: Leftoverdj

What's quality?

I measure the quality of my cast bullets by whether they will do what I need them to do in my guns. I once shot PPC seriously. Considering the demands of that discipline and the limitations of my guns and shooting ability, bullets that would group into 2" at 25 yards from my 686 in a Lee Machine Rest were perfecftly acceptable.

There was no need for me to spend time that could be better used in improving my shooting skills in trying to make more nearly perfect bullets. Whether they were uniform to one grain or ten was irrelevant. They were shooting way better than I was.

Someone shooting a .380 pocket gun or a surplus 1911 doesn't need perfect bullets. He needs bullets that will feed, give reasonable accuracy, and won't lead. "Pretty good" will do him fine and anything more is a waste of time and money. There are mighty few pistol shooters outside of Shillouette and serious bullseye who need any better than "pretty good".

Rifles and quasi-rifles are a different story.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2003, 02:44:06 AM »

Lloyd, I don't exactly disagree with you, my views are just colored by my experiences. I started out with mostly Lyman moulds and I sweat blood. They almost all needed deburring and a couple needed the sprue plate sharpened. Took me years to get all that straightened out. Ohaus and RCBS weren't much better in my experience. Life would have been a lot easier if I had had a really good mould, either from the source or reworked by someone who knew what they were doing.

Then I ran into Lees. They are cheap and tinny, but you boil the preservative off them, preheat by dipping into your alloy and you are casting bullets. Wreck one, and I have only done that once in 30 years, and you are out $13. The locating sytem on the one and two cavities is a nuisance with the need to lube it, but that is cured in the six cavities.

I really like the Lee six cavities. They give me good bullets in a hurry and after the first 1000 they are paid for. I'm paying $25 a set. I don't expect them to last forever, but I don't expect me to last forever either.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2003, 06:28:53 AM »

I totaly agree with you on the lyman mold thing. I will only buy one if I have to. I have had pretty good luck with the rcbs nei and seaco molds though. I have quite a few lbts and they cast good but arent to durable. In my opinion the real molds are being made by Ballistic cast. Applegate and mountain molds. If you have to buy lees for sure get the 6 cavity mols there alot better made then the 2 cavitys.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2003, 12:47:23 PM »

I know theres got to be some people with them laying around that have found them to be useless. I have a new lbt .41 mold that uses them and I figured Id ask before i ordered them. Thanks

TScottO · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2003, 03:47:57 PM »

I found a used magma/star lub sizer. One piece down. Thursday I'm going to see what I can do at the tire shops for wheel weights.

Scott

Shootingamigo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2003, 09:54:13 AM »

RCBS Saeco and Lyman in that order 2 cavity!! If he gets some experience with heat and such a 4 cavity is fine. Lee molds are rubbish!!! Lee furnaces are rubbish!!! Magma sure does make a great furnace. Leftover DJ, how the heck are you improving your shooting skills when you dont even pay attention to the basics?? Of course I had a dog once and he was perfectly happy improving his equilibrium chasing that tail!!You should change your handle to Pontificator. Improve your reading skill and look it up I know you dont know the meaning!!!!

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2003, 11:36:24 AM »

Quote from: Shootingamigo

Lee furnaces are rubbish!!! Magma sure does make a great furnace. Leftover DJ, how the heck are you improving your shooting skills when you dont even pay attention to the basics?? Of course I had a dog once and he was perfectly happy improving his equilibrium chasing that tail!!You should change your handle to Pontificator. Improve your reading skill and look it up I know you dont know the meaning!!!!

I must be pretty damned good then to be getting decent results out of such junk.

Ain't no arguing with group sizes. Bullets either shoot well or they don't.

Shootingamigo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2003, 12:51:51 PM »

Junk!!! No getting around it. If it works for you then GREAT!! Ya gets whats ya pays for!! This guy is spending 1000 bucks put him on the right track DJ. He didnt ask what you want to cut corners on he wants to know the best bang for HIS buck!! I think Lloyd tried to put him into something that would fit HIS pocket and give him a way to grow into the passion. And I agree!! Some guys prefer the Cadillac some the Yugo!! You have a problem with "Reading and Comprehension" must have been sharpening them shooting skills during that portion of your "edgmucation." Just pulling your leg there. Just put these people in the right direction is all.

"Can ya hear me now!!"
Shootingamigo