Author Topic: another 25-06 handi question (Read 672 times)

timbertoes · « **on:** December 10, 2004, 06:27:42 PM »

if you can stand another dumb question from me :eek:

fired case dimensions.....

above the rim, up .25 inches, the diameter is .466"

directly above that, the case appears bulged, it's diamter is .469

well, actually the meaurments vary a thous or so each time its measured, but the lower section appears brighter and smoother, while above it is a feelable bulge/slight ridge and the apearance there and up is not a smooth and bright.

this is a factory federal round.

does this mean anything to anyone ?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:08:03 PM »

Betcha it does to Fred M...he'll be checkin in I suppose when he sees this...in the mean time, check out his .25-06 experience.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/tweakultra.html

lik2hunt · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2004, 10:49:16 PM »

Sounds like the same kind of problems that I was having. The end result for me was a total refund from H&R. Fred's solution was to install a stronger latch spring. Try a thin peice of shim stock on the hinge pin to tighten the barrel to your receiver. Also be sure to watch for flattened or blown out primers. Inspect your breech face often. Check back in and let us know how ya come out.

timbertoes · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2004, 04:14:39 AM »

I hope FredM does weigh in, have been to his site a few times. and I know of your problems, lik2hunt. looks like I am in a similar situtuation.

the gun store has a 30 day policy of satisfaction. I am thinking of going back with the gun and seeing just how it works....
they do have a NEF in .243 there.... the 25 sure is a cool round though.

JPH45 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2004, 04:21:27 AM »

The buldge you are refering to is commonly called the expansion ring and you will find it in any cartridge fired in any chamber. That is the point where the case wall and the case head meet. It is quite normal expansion and quite safe. If you reload you will notice that about the only way youcan get rid of this is to use small base dies from RCBS, and I'm not sure you could completely eliminate it then. The reading of your mike changing a bit as you go arond the case is probably morea result of an instrument that is accurate to +/- .001 (one thousandth) To really see what is going on, you need a mic that isaccurate to +/- .0001 (0ne ten thousandth) To properly measure case head expansion you need a blade micrometer (Try McMaster-Carr one should be available for between 130.00 and 160.00) and measure the head just above the extraction groove. You must have a blade mic to do this, a common mic will not read in the area below the expansion ring. Also, the practice established by Ken Waters in Pet Loads is to use once fired brass for this. New brass is too soft to get accurate reading from, and once the bras has been fired more than three times, it has become hard enough that it doesn't flow as readily.

The dimensions youu give actually indicate a tight chamber as the nominal dimension of a 25-06 case is given as .470-.472 in those places, but again, you need a mic that will read +/- .0001 to know what you really have. +/- .001 just ain't accurate enough. That allows for a total reading error of .002, where a finer reading mic allows for a total reading error ten times less that

TimJ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 11, 2004, 05:34:53 AM »

How well did it shoot? Any problems with case extraction? Just curious.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2004, 11:04:33 AM »

timbertoes.
JPH45 explained the pressure ring situation correctly, Actually a measurement at the pressure ring at .468 is really good. The trouble is with the case makers. Case bases are as small as .464 and chambers as big as .472. the bulge is normal but with a custom chamber it can be elliminated, I have chambers that are .465" at the base, no bulge.

timbertoes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 11, 2004, 01:22:36 PM »

thanks for the education!

when I returned the NEF, I showed the case to the gun store as one of the reasons!! they did not say anything particular about that.

then today, when I was shooting the NEF replacment ruger, I saw that my reloads (but not factory) loads did the same thing.
so I felt bad about showing the case as one of my NEF objections.

But at least I have bought several, hmm, lets see, 2 NEF's , 1 Lanber, 1 Win 1500xtr, and a win9422 there and...sold back the Lanber at loss, sold them a 357 pistol and an 11-87.

So guess I am an ok customer and very much will go back.

BTW, I see a similar situation with my .357 lever gun, but I thought that was due (at least only due) to the "stretching" of the case in lever guns, as is said to happen, as printed in a reloading manual.

thanks guys.

JPH45 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 11, 2004, 04:17:20 PM »

Without being butts about it, the gun shop should have taught you about this, but it seems that more and more actually knowing something about firearms and how they function is less a less a requirement to sell them. I'm sure the gunshop is a good shop, and the people good people, I'm just surprised they would accept this as evidence of a defect, unless they just hold some idea that NEF's are poor rifles and expected to have returns. I'm not sure which of these situations is worse.

timbertoes · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2004, 05:30:08 AM »

Quote from: JPH45

Without being butts about it, the gun shop should have taught you about this, but it seems that more and more actually knowing something about firearms and how they function is less a less a requirement to sell them. I'm sure the gunshop is a good shop, and the people good people, I'm just surprised they would accept this as evidence of a defect, unless they just hold some idea that NEF's are poor rifles and expected to have returns. I'm not sure which of these situations is worse.

I wondered the same ....somewhat....

This shop sells used and consignment , along with new guns. thier 30 day policy no doubt helps them sell the used and consignment guns. They also have a gunsmith. they have I think only 2 people who will do the returns, trades and buys, and these would be the owner/managers.
When you trade or sell, they look it up in the book, show you the prices, and telll you outright what they will give you, and how much they are going to re-sell it for. thats pretty "honest" approach.

they also stock a half dozen NEF rifles and shotguns, and also stock the low priced O/U shotguns from all over europe. in this category, I would expect to see both defects, and buyer remorse returns.

This Shop is GunMaster in Plano, Tx. I dont mind mentioning that, becuase i dont think I or anyone has said anything bad or libelous :wink:
In fact, I like them much, they are freindly, will show you guns left and right, and even offer up guns to look at. Price are OK, nothing great, as far as supplies and all, the real deals can be found on consignment guns, but they go real quick.

they do have pretty fair knowledge of the firearms, though each salesperson probaly has "specialites" born out of their personal experiences.

When it comes to reloading and fired brass pressure indications - my guess is the adage of not giving any advice whatsoever - it could be turned around into a lawsuit. esp around the Plano geek people area.

from my travels to different shops - if you want a second income or even a first income - become a GOOD gunsmith. these shops have backlogs of several months!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2004, 05:51:48 AM »

Sooo...how did the Handi 25-06 shoot for you? Which Federal factory loding was it?? I just got mine and it shoots great with the Winchester Supreme ammo...but it didn't do too good with the Federal loading of the XLC 100 grain bullet...but I think that was more due to the black coating of the Winchester's fouling the bore...and Barnes states theirs does best from a totally clean bore,so I'll try them again using their cleaning methods and see.........

Mac