Author Topic: Tyler, Texas, shootings  (Read 851 times)

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Offline alsatian

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Tyler, Texas, shootings
« on: February 26, 2005, 06:04:38 AM »
As some of you may know, a man -- the bad guy (BG) -- involved in a contentious child custody suit shot and killed several people including his ex-wife using an "assault rifle" Thursday in Tyler, Texas.  It is not clear exactly what "assault rifle" he used, but it was said to be an AK-47.  While the real AK-47 is selectable for fully automatic fire and hence outlawed in most circumstances since 1934 as a machine gun, perhaps the BG merely had an AK-47 look alike.  The BG wore body armor and a flak vest over the body armor.

After shooting his wife dead, the BG turned on and shot once his 23 year old son who had been acting as a mediator between the BG, his father, and the BG's ex-wife, his mother.  At this time a concealed carrier intervened and exchanged shots with the BG.  Because the BG had on body armor, the concealed carrier didn't affect the BG much.  The BG hit the concealed carrier who fell to the ground.  The BG then walked over to the concealed carrier and shot and killed him on the ground.  A member of the police stated that the concealed carrier saved the life of the 23 year old son, albeit at the cost of his own life.

The BG escaped in his truck, to be shot in the head and killed a short distance away.  During some point in these events another armed civilian -- I don't know if this was a second concealed carrier or just someone with a rifle in a gun rack -- also fired upon the BG.

The BG was said to have a prior history of assault and of firearms violations.  This language was very indefinite.

Anyway, I find this event regrettable, as all of us do.  In reference to this as a subject related to our second amendment rights, I can imagine the news media now clamouring that, see, assault weapons must be banned!  What I wonder about is (1) was the weapon a true AK-47 and therefore fully automatic and hence already banned by the 1934 machine gun law, (2) whether the BG's "history of assault" prohibited ownership or keeping of firearms, and (3) whether the BG's "history of firearms violations" prohibited ownership or keeping of firearms.  All three of these points bear on the question, who do gun control laws constrain?  In most cases, gun control laws only impose a burden and a restriction on the exercise of second amendment rights of law abiding citizens, non-criminals.  It is a logical tautology that a criminal, a law breaker does not obey the law and hence is not constrained by gun control laws.  I have heard others say wearing body armor itself is a felonious offense, and this guy was in violation of that law (assuming my source RE body armor was correct).

Additionally, far from being an event which cries out for greater constriction on civilian ownership of guns, the event shows that concealed carry and civilian ownership of guns can contribute to saving lives, as for example the dead concealed carrier saved the life of the 23-year old son.

What are the chances we will hear these perspectives from the major media?  If this ends up covered on 60 minutes, what is the angle those boys will take on this event?

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 06:35:56 AM »
It doesn't really matter exactly what sort of firearm the man had, the media will call it an assault rifle, demonize it, and point to this as evidence that this firearm and all types like it should be banned.

I will not hold my breath waiting for someone to point out that the CCW carrier was wholly ineffective in his misbegotten effort to be a hero, and this will start a whole range of new conversation on how much more severely those CCW holders still alive must be restricted.

History provides ample evidence that the guns will be pointed to as the responsible instruments of this episode of domestic violence and failed vigilanteism, rather than the human actors who actually drove the events.

 :x
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2005, 09:30:13 AM »
It would be hard to say if it was an actual AK 47. To be legal here in the US the fire control system must be capable of only firing 1 shot with each pull of the trigger much like our M-16 knockoffs. Here tho is the kicker, any semi-auto if a guy is smart enough and has a backround in machinists work can be made to fire full auto. There are kits out there now for some of them. I am afraid once the big news media outlets get wind of these shootings it will turn into a full assault on the right to keep and bear arms.
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline alsatian

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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2005, 04:06:26 AM »
Nighttrain52:

Yes, I fear that the event will be used to try to make new gun laws.  I read as a response to a similar post I made on another forum that the bad guy was a convicted felon and hence was not legal to keep and bear arms.  Lot of good that gun law did, imagine how much an assault weapons ban would have detered him?  Now the information provided on this other forum was uncorraborated, so I wouldn't take it to the bank just yet.  Hopefully more information will come out about this.

George Bush and the new Attorney General are said to favor an assault weapons ban.  It might be worth investigating this story and writing a letter to Bush laying out the particulars and disclaiming against using this as a pretext for pushing an Assault Weapons ban.  On the other hand, how is George Bush accountable now, as he will never run for political office again, being a 2nd term president?

Offline lostone1413

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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2005, 08:03:47 AM »
The election is over you think GWB really gives a hoot in H**L about us gun owners?? His AG wants the AW ban back. The biggest group that got GWB elected is us gun owners. Funny we are the first group he forgot about

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2005, 08:41:01 AM »
where did you see that GWB "wants the AW ban back"?  I must have missed that press conference... can you include a link?

Offline lostone1413

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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2005, 09:23:33 AM »
If you watched the debates he said he would sign it The AG he got said he favors it, To me if he would sign it he is for it or lacks balls. Take your pick

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2005, 09:34:13 AM »
or maybe, just maybe, he said that to win over moderate voters who don't own guns or don't understand guns... could it be that he knew it would never get to his desk so he could say what he did and appeal to everyone?  would you rather he only campaign on right wing policies and lose moderate voters?  cause if that happened you'd have president kerry right now, and i think we can all agree that ACTUALLY wants to renew the AWB.

Offline lostone1413

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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2005, 09:57:25 AM »
I'd much rather see someone run for office with the courage to stand up for his beliefs.I'm from the old school that and only that is the mark of a man. Went to a gathering this fall. Had authors their leaders of about every pro gun group their is One on one everyone would tell you GWB is the lesser of the two evils. Not one looked at GWB as being pro gun. We now control both houses We should be able to pass any pro gun bill we want and get rid of any anit gun bills that have been passed. Lets see what GWB does. All I see so far is him not wanting to protect our country by letting all the illegals in.

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2005, 12:00:06 PM »
funny you should mention tyler...

my uncle called our house this weekend and said to go to the website of Tyler's main news station.

the cop who took him out is my uncle's nephew on the other side of the family.

i wont say his name just because i am not sure what the rules/laws are about that...but i will say its his second or third time having to shoot someone because they were so out of control and trying to kill people. the first time was when a man escaped and he gave chase and ended up in a creel bottom, being held down my the suspect under the water, and he had to shoot upwards through the water to hit the guy.

his brother is also a cop in tyler and killed a man when the man got out of a car at a random stop and brandished a handgun and took aim at him.

what are they putting in the water down there?!

my cousin is planning to get a job with his relatives down there and will be transferring soon.

i guess i better wish him luck.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline williamlayton

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Tyler, Texas, shootings
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2005, 12:45:42 AM »
MJB--
Just TEXAS, by, GOD. Maybe, hopefully, they will kick us out of the Union, Which I voted against the first time around---Well, me an ol RIP did anyway.
Too much western in us fer most folks.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD