Theodore Roosevelt M-94 Commemorative

[Advocate]

Anybody have any experience with the Theodore Roosevelt M-94 Commemorative?   A friend has one and wants to know what to do with it. It has an octogonal  26" barrel (groan!) and the cresent shaped butt plate that  produces murderous recoil. It has kind of a semi-pistol grip, that I personally find very comfortable, actually.    And the octoganal barrel is cool looking too.  

My recommendation to my friend is to cut off the barrel to a more manageable 20", put on an IER scope, square off the butt and add a rubber recoil pad, work up some loads, and SHOOT IT!  

Local gunsmiths advised against the changes on the grounds that it would destroy the gun's "value."  Really?  How much are they willing to pay for the gun in its original condition?  Well, less than $200 on the grounds that that Winchster made tons of them and they  have no ascertainable "collector" value above any other M-94.  

Any suggestions?

[pinduck]

You have the right ideas. The commenratives in this quantity will never be a true collectors item. Also during that period of manufacture quality was not the greatest, for example sometime compare it to one of the 94s made in the 50s, quite a shock.

[jhm]

Most of the commemoratives are worth their most when they were originally purchased as alot of the owners threw away the boxes they came in and kept working the actions on them which takes away value big time,  I would just turn it into a shooter if it wasnt 100 percent   JIM

[Advocate]

it has a thicker heavier barrel than the normal carbine, measuring .7255" at the muzzle.  At 18" it would really be a fast handling little item.  The magazine tube is 16" long.  Reviewing the loading manuals, 14" 30-30's listed in the "handgun" section are only 100 or so fps behind the 30-30's with 20" barrels listed in the rifle section.  This means an 18" 30-30 WCF should be functionally equivalent to the regular 20" but be shorter and handier.

[Bullseye]

I had a Wells & Fargo Comm. that suffered from all the same problems you mention plus the fact that they made a bunch of them.  It had been shot but was still in perfect condition.  I sold it for $375 about 9 years ago.  Was not worth what it should have been if they produced less of them, but enough to go buy a brand new gun of my desire.  I think the thing originally cost about $275.  Try selling it if it is in good shape, you never know who might want it.  I had a bunch of calls but nobody was interested when they found out it had been shot.  The guy that bought it just wanted a pretty gun to go hunting with.  Go figure!

Secondly, if I could not sell it I would modify it to be shootable if it was mine.  I either sell a gun or shoot it and you are right, they are not very shootable the way they were made.

[Advocate]

I did some research on the TR commemorative. They made approx. 52,000 of them.  On line gun auctions are asking from $450.00 to $1,200 depending on whether they're fired and if the box and papers are availalable.   Interestingly, they made both rifle and carbine versions. The carbine with its 20" barrel has a full length magazine and the rifles  with its 26" barrel had a 2/3 magazine.  The forearm on the rifle is 10 inches long, unlile the carbine which is only about 8" long. It's really a very comfortable rifle with the longer forearm.

[w30wcf]

Advocate,

I purchased a .30-30 T.R. Commemorative Rifle for $375  8 years or so ago and really like it.  These guns were made in 1969 and therefore have the "stamped" cartridge carrier which is ok but I am not too crazy about. Model 94's made before 1964 have machined carriers and current production uses powdered metal, both of which are much more durable.

A friend of mine purchased a used 26" T.R. Comm. in December, 2002, and happily paid $425.00 for it.

Anyway, I like this rifle with it's 26" octagonal barrel for long range target shooting. It wears a tang sight and a Lyman 17A globe front sight. My favorite target with this rifle is the 1000 yard  steel buffalo, followed by the  500 Meter NRA High Power Sihouette Ram.  For these two targets I use Lyman's 311284  220 gr. (ww. +2% tin &heat treated) cast  bullet  pushed by slow burning H414 or 4350.  I single load them and boy do they shoot!  Believe it or not, the velocity with that bullet in the 26" barrel is knocking on 2,000 f.p.s. and pretty much duplicates the ballistics of the early .30-40-220 cartridge which was used competitively at 1000 yards at the turn of the last century.

If your friend would like a shorter version, it would be ideal if he could find someone who had the 20"  version and could arrange a swap.  Obviously, if he would prefer the 2/3rd's magazine and a 20" barrel, and didn't care about the collector's value, well ............................

Speaking of Teddy Roosevelt, he had this to say about Winchester's .30 W.C.F. (Marlin /U.M.C.'s .30-30) in the 1897 Winchester Catalog under a chapter entitled "What a .30 Winchester Cartridge Will Do".

"While on the cattle ranges recently, and obliged to use my rifle for fresh meat, I made quite a full trial of the .30 Winchester using a half jacket bullet, the nose being of naked lead. The bullet mushroomed on both tissue and bone, and it is as wicked shooting a little weapon as I have handled. Nothing that I struck got away. There is no recoil and no smoke; the weapon is very light and handy, and the range and penetration are excellent."

"On the whole I think it is the most satisfactory rifle that I have ever had. It knocks down an antelope as if the beast were hit with a sledge hammer, and I should myself, without hesitation, use it for any game in America.  The last shot I made with it was in company with a western friend, with whom I killed my first buffalo thirteen years ago. The antelope was 180 yards off, running. I struck him in the flank, the bullet ranging forward and coming out of the opposite shoulder, bringing him down before he had made another jump.   My companion came up and looked at the hole the bullet made, shook his head and said solemnly, ‘I guess that little WINCHESTER is the ace‘; and I quite agree with him. “

Long live the .30-30!
w30wcf