Author Topic: .280 Question???? vs current 270 (Read 981 times)

JeffVol · « **on:** December 19, 2004, 05:19:46 PM »

I have a 270 barrel presently. If you read back through the forums I had a problem with getting it sighted in. Thought I had it fixed until I missed 2 deer yesterday. With the 280 having a longer barrel, does this increase the accuracy? It seems reading back that more folks than myself have had problems with the 270. I was just wondering if there is any advantage. Thanks....

like2shoot · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2004, 06:03:24 PM »

In general, the stiffer the barrel, the more prone to it being an accurate barrel. In general , with the taper being the same, shorter barrels are more stiff than longer barrels. I don't think the extra length in this case hurts, buts I also don't think it helps.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2004, 06:59:50 PM »

Jeff:

What happen to cause you to miss???

Mac

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2004, 06:21:39 AM »

My 280 shoots Rem.150 gr. Corlokts at 2975 fps. and about 1.5" at 100 yds. The barrel is pretty heavy for a sporter,more like a varmit barrel. Recoil is very easy for the power it puts out. It makes the gun fairly heavy,but it's easier to hold steady that way. It's about 100 fps. faster than the 270 with the same weight bullets,mainly because of the longer barrel. Its my favorite barrel. Digger

bajabill · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2004, 06:39:37 AM »

I dont think the cartridge selection will have an effect to cause a deer to be missed. If it was a good shot at a deer that relulted in a miss, it must be a very bad gun/ammo, not because it is a 270/280/260/whatever.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2004, 07:26:45 AM »

Quote from: bajabill

I dont think the cartridge selection will have an effect to cause a deer to be missed. If it was a good shot at a deer that relulted in a miss, it must be a very bad gun/ammo, not because it is a 270/280/260/whatever.

There could several reasons for the misses, but unless it was a very long shot and assuming the gun was sighted in properly, I don't think it was the gun or bad ammo. Maybe a loose scope, buck fever, hurried shot, even a hit that was not identified as such. The deer will never know the difference between a 270 and 280 if the shot is true.

JeffVol · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2004, 09:22:58 AM »

I had the deer broadside. The distance was about 130 yards. There was nothing but brown in the scope. When I sighted the gun in I started at 25 yards shoot a great group and then went to 50. Did well. I have just no confidence in this barrel now and I feel that I did not pull off or get Buck Fever. Hell, I whistled at them to get them to stop and it was a stand still shot. I guess I need to ask my question this way, do I get a more accurate barrel with 4 more inches? I don't have this problem with my muzzleloader. I have hit deer 100 yards away with it. I don't know???

bajabill · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2004, 10:22:34 AM »

Im not making a guess as to why a shot missed its target, to many possibilities.

But, a 22 vs 26 inch barrel is not the culprit
nor is a 270 win vs a 280 rem the culprit.

Most will look to the shooter and the gun with its entire rigging, and maybe the ammo as the culprit.

riddleofsteel · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2004, 11:05:20 AM »

Go to the range and duplicate the conditions of the hunt. This means similar distance, how the gun was held or braced or lack of it, load ect. Try shooting and see if the weapon is still sighted in and shooting like it was. Try to isolate if it is the rifle, scope, load or the nut on the end of the handle.
Classic case is a friend who had a Savage bolt action .243. Off of sandbags, from a bench, he could shot groups that were one ragged hole at 100 yards. He sighted in the rifle 1.5 inches high at 100 yards and put it away until hunting season. During the first four days of the 2002 season he missed or injured and lost 3 deer including one fine buck. He offer to sell me his POS rifle at a big loss but I convinced him to go shooting with me on a morning we could have been hunting. After he put five rounds into a dime sized group off of a sandbag rest he was stratching his head. I pulled his tree stand off of his truck and mounted it about 2 foot off of the ground on a nearby tree and invited him to repeat the group. Out of five rounds he only cut paper once. Frankly, shooting off hand he could not hit the proverbial broadside of a barn. We installed a homemade rifle rest rail on his stand padded with pipe insulation foam and he shot decent groups from his new setup before we quit that afternoon. As luck would have it he did not see another deer until the next year but during the 2003 season he took two bucks and a doe. Most importantly he did not miss or injure and lose any deer he shot at.
First thing to check is the scope and mounts.
Lose mounts and/or rings are easy to find and fix.
A defective scope can be a pain to diagnose and a shifing zero can depend be hard to isolate...try another scope.
Of course if you really isolate it to the barrel or gun then you have to ask why? What is inconsistent?
Lock up?
Is the twist stabilizing the bullet weight you are using?
Are your groups stable at the distance you are shooting?

Hay this half the fun or so they say.

LOL

mag41vance · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2004, 01:35:13 PM »

riddleofsteel, excellent post!!

If more people would practice at a 10% size deer target @ 25 yards with a pellet gun during the off season, they would soon learn how bench shooting is only beneficial for testing ammo, and zeroing in your firearm. It doesn't help the hunter for field realities.

The first time my son (who is an excellent bench shooter) tried the 1/10 size deer target at 25 yards, he shot the deer in the gut, knee, ear, butt, and once in the chest. And that's with my very accurate CZ 452 varmint .22lr

riddleofsteel · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2004, 02:10:30 PM »

My 11 year old son took his first two deer this year. One was with a .50 Renegade muzzleloader, the other with his 6.5-284 Custom Model Seven. I have intentionally kept him off of the benchrest most of the time. He shoots a Savage .22 target rifle and an air rifle both with high power scopes, mostly from off hand positions or braced on his knee. He can already give me serious competition seated or standing with a scoped rifle. As his strength increases he will only get better. I have also taken him off of most bullseye type targets. He shoots cans, plastic bottles, clay targets, and animal targets most of the time except when sighting in a scope.
Back in the 1980's I had a large 300 acre hunting lease that allowed me to live on the land in mobile home. I built a shooting range on the land with steel plates targets for handgun and steel animal targets. On the weekends there were often anywhere from 2 to 10 friends out there shooting and spending time around the shooting range, my reloading shed and the chronograph area.
One brisk fall weekend a group of 8 guys were sighting in deer rifles for the coming season. After watching them carefully sight in from my shooting table I suggested that we have a little friendly competition. I had a 14" steel gong hanging from a tree about 130 yards from the shooting line. One by one we shot at the gong from standing, sitting and braced beside a post positions. Over half of the guys were unable to consistently hit the gong from off hand standing positions. It was not until we got to the sitting braced and standing braced positions that any consistency in hitting the gong emerged.
I had practiced on this gong quite a bit over the years so I guess I kinda showed off that day. The real stinger was when I pulled out a .45 Colt 7.5" Blackhawk and hit that gong almost as consistently as I could with my rifle. You see I had practiced with it and knew just how to aim.
The point is that unless you get off the sandbags and start shooting off hand at unknown distances you do not realize how easy real field shooting at game animals can be.

jimbobfish · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2004, 04:19:06 PM »

Jeff,

I watched you post as I bought the same rifle you have. I too have had the accuracy issues as you and hoping to find some 'trick' to getting it shooting better. I started out by doing the typical shootin on the new barrel, one shot-clean, one shot-clean for the first 15 shots. Then clean after 5 shot strings. I have tried JB'ing the barrel twice with about 100 strokes each time. Bedded the scope rail, found the back rail screw too long and trimmed, floated the barrel with rubber o-ring, cleaned the action well. All to no avail. The best group shot so far has been a 5shot 100yrd about 1.5", shot in about 15 mins. Waited about 20 mins for cool down the shot a 8" 5shot group. I have tried handloads with 5 different bullets, two brands, with weights from 100gr to 150gr. I believe the current shot total to be around 250 total but still no confidence or consistancy which has prevented me from hunting with it.

I have had the many times mentioned stuck cases and tried JB'ing and 400 grit'ing the chamber but to no avail. Even more confusing is the inconsistancy in the stuck cases. It may go five with no issue the hang two then three free, who knows. Still contemplating cutting the notch in the breach face.

I have not given up but still no 'relevation' on how to bring it in. I do know that .270 or .280 won't matter to deer here in Tennessee but maybe a new barrel in either will improve the accuracy of the gun.

And before any in here question my ability, on many of the outings I have shot my Vanguard(.270) and AR(.223) with many 5shot groups less than 3/4".

riddleofsteel · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2004, 12:40:46 AM »

HUMMMMM
:?
Sure sounds like you two may have one of the infamous NEF buggered up barrel/chambers. You could take it to a smith to evaluate the specs, bore, chamber alignment by casting the chamber ect. Or you can just send the entire firearm to NEF. From what I have heard they do a pretty good job of setting things straight.

Good luck and keep us posted

Tcallbuilder · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2004, 01:54:03 AM »

Hey Jeff....GO VOL'S
How many rounds do you have through the barrel on that .270?

I have a 30-06 handi that started out shooting really eratic groups (2-3inch at 50yrds) but after around 100rounds this thing settled down.
It now shoots rem cor-lok 150gr PSP right at 1inch @100yrds
Some of my handloads will do a bit better than that.

On the other hand a friend of mine has a .280 26in barreled handi.....
(i dont think he even has 50rnds through it yet.)
That thing shot less than one inch right out of the box w/factory ammo.

These barrels really heat sensative and will vertically string groups when they warm up.......if you try to chase it with scope adjustment......then you may find it will shoot really high next time out....with a cold barrel.

Let us know how you make out with it.

TCB

cricman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2004, 03:00:23 AM »

My 22" barrelled .270 initially gave me problems, but after applying "the Handi-Rifle" tricks, its about a 3/4"@100yd gun. I think the most critical trick for my Handi was bedding the scope mount to the barrel. I shot an 8 point in November (only a 60yd shot) and a turkey 2 weeks ago. The turkey was about 80 yds away, but I managed a shot on the base of his neck. I only lost about 6 oz of breast meat, so I was ecstatic. Not the toughest shot in the world, but the Handi and Simmons scope did their jobs. Don't give up on the 270 yet, it really is a good cartridge.

cricman

Long Live the Handi-Rifle!

270Handiman · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2004, 04:17:23 AM »

JeffVol,

I feel your pain, lol. I've got a 270 synthetic that I cannot figure out. The best group I can manage off the bench is about 4 inches, with an average size of 7 or 8 inches. I have studied this forum for months now looking for new things to try. I have tried all of the do-it -yourself things ever mentioned here with no success. I think I am going to send it back to NEF next. It's either that or sell it and buy a new one.

Can anyone explain the process of sending one in to NEF? Do I just ship it with a note saying "It won't shoot worth a crap"? Has anyone ever shipped one back for this reason?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2004, 05:13:58 AM »

Quote

These barrels really heat sensative and will vertically string groups when they warm up.......if you try to chase it with scope adjustment......then you may find it will shoot really high next time out....with a cold barrel.

From what I can see and have read...I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head with this.....I've seen way too many folks do just this....

For all those who are having major problems with an otherwise great cartridge...try this one little trick...if all other tricks have failed...

Start with the cold rifle in a couple of sandbags with the action open...one bag in the front under the receiver and one under the stock in front of the recoil pad...make sure te gun cannot move side to side or fore and aft...set up with the barrel pointed at a 25 yard target...about a 1" dot...a bright color if possible...now...look thru the barrel and get it lined up with the dot....then carefully look thru your scope.....how far off are you...if you are 4" to 8" off the dot with the cross hairs...it's probably your scope settings...and not the gun...carefully adjust the cross hairs back onto the dot...and then adjust the scope to the desired hight from that point for your setting at 100 yards...before ever firing a shot thru it...then go and shot a verifying shot to prove it...I have seen this on at least 5 different occassions at the public range I shoot at...and with various calibers of Handi's...all of the guys couldn't get the rifle to group wurth a darn...and after they allowed the rifle to cool off...and tried this...they were shooting much better...I'm not saying this will make them shoot 1" or better groups each rifle/load/shooter is different...but it is a real easy way to check your scope settings before wasting a-lot of ammo .....and if you do want to make the scope adjustment for the 100 yard or longer setting...you must know the where the bullet first crosses the line of site...this is where you should place the target to zero it...if you check the ballistics of your favorite load...and it first crosses at 23 yards... and then again at say...275 yards...then put your target dot up at 23 yards and zero it there...

You can also do this with a cardboard box...gunvise or what ever...as long as the gun can't move when adjusting the scope...

Mac

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2004, 10:05:08 AM »

Has the thought occured to you that maybe you didn't miss? What did the deer do at the shot? Did it just run away? Tail up or down? Did it buck like a mule kick? Did it jump straight up?

Did you see the bullet strike far enough away to be sure it was a miss? Did you go to point where deer was and look for any sign of a hit? Blood, hair, meat, bone particles? Did you follow the deer's line of travel as far as possible to check for blood sign?

Now to your question. No a longer barrel has zip to do with accuracy. If you were using iron sights a longer sight radius might help but not with a scope on gun. As stated some times a shorter and stiffer barrel will be more accurate. But not always. Barrels are individuals just as we are. Like us they have habits, likes and dislikes.

Take your gun back to the range. Shoot a 100 yard group. If the group hits where you sighted it in and it's no more than 3"-4" the gun IS NOT the problem. The shooter is.

Lots of things cause misses and the only folks who don't miss are those who don't shoot. You might have gotten buck fever without realizing it. Folks do. You might have flinched. We all do at times. You might have let the barrel touch something hard you didn't notice. If so it will cause a miss about every time.

And as a I said, maybe you didn't miss at all. Tell us why you think you did and what steps you took to verify it. Deer don't just fall over when shot. I've shot deer that ran 200-300 yards and fell dead from chest shots and I never found a drop of blood but did recover deer. Ya really gotta follow up every shot unless you know beyond all shadow of a doubt it was a miss. Only way to be that sure is to see the bullet impact somewhere it couldn't have if it hit the deer.

Tell is more. But go shoot it again on the range. If it hits even a sheet of notebook size paper at 100 yards it likely wasn't the gun. Don't blame it and get down on it. Just work to do better next time. Believe me if this is your first miss it won't be your last.

rmtaylor · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2004, 02:00:50 PM »

So far my 270 has only grouped consistently well with 150 gr Hornady SST factory ammo. So I sighted in for hunting with it and have not touched the scope settings since. I still shoot other ammo and my handloads but I judge how it is doing by the size of the group not the placement on the target. I also shoot one of my Hornady's every trip the range 1st shot cold barrel to make sure I am still ready for Hunting.

Richard