Another noknockdown for my 45 70

[Mac11700]

Maybe with rutting bucks they have a higher tolerence to pain...since they have only one thing on their mind :wink:

Mac

[missed_shot]

I have killed several deer and hogs with my 45/70 using 405 gr. bullets. While they don't drop on the spot, They have never gone more than 40 yds. either. All have been lung shots.

[jeff223]

you can place the 45-70 in  with the sluggun and muzzle loader group.big slow moving bullets.the bullets from these guns seldom expand but they  penatrate very good.wound channels are alittle bigger than the calliber of the bullet unless you hit bone.there are some new bullets for the slugguns and muzz loaders that help things out now.

as far as what an animal does when hit by a bullet or arrow is differant everytime.you can shoot a deer with an arrow through both lungs and he my travel 15yds and go down,the next one you shoot the same way may travel 150yards.you just never know.the same holds true with a rifle or shotgun or muzz loader.i have shot deer with shotgun slugs and muzz loader bullets that react the same way they do when shot with an arrow.you just never know what they will do and how far they will go.ive shot deer with 6.5x55,270 and 30-06 and its the same story.some you can flop were they stand and some run to beat hell.you just never know.

the big game hunter must also be a game tracker.tracking wounded big game is a fact of life for us regardless of what you shoot the game with

[Cottonwood]

Guys here is a bit of an e-mail I recieved from a friend of mine who just returned from his bison hunt.  The bullet he is using is a 30:1 cast 510-gr Bison Buster (used to be called Elk Buster in its super hard cast form) the rifle used was an 1885 Browning High Wall BPCR model in 45-90 with a 34" barrel.  Sights used were Vernier Tang Soule sight and front Globe sight.  The powder charge was 83.0 gr of FFg Goex.

I only had a 100 yd zero with 510 gr bullet so  I figured I'd
go high hump, I put the vernier tang soule sight above her and saw a
little daylight, dropped back down just a little bit, said a short
prayer, and had a real good squeeze.  Boom!, smoke, cough, cough,
couldnt see the bullet impact, but heard a big WHACK !!....once the
smoke cleared a bit, I could see the herd jumping around and in the
middle I could the cow struggling to stay on her feet.......when the
bullet impacted she was pushed back even tho she was broad side,
facing left. then she wobbled around and staggered forward a bout 10
yds and piled up.

Now further information about shot placement and this great kill shot was ranged at 175 yards.  The 510-gr Bison Buster entered right where he needed it into the lungs, and exited out the other side leaving an exit hole approx the size of a thumb.  No boolit was recovered as he would have liked.

His bison cow weighed between 1100 and 1200 pounds, I don't have the official weight as of yet, but this was a 1 shot kill.  

Now his friend who was using a 45-70 shot his cow at 90 to 100 yds on the run, with two store bought 45-70 PMC 405 FN cast bullets that had a hardness of 20:1... the bullets did not exit, but were recovered from the gut pile later on, by someone else who wanted to gut dive for them.  Shot placement was not the best as these bullets were in the gut pile.

Now here is what the 510-gr Bison Buster looks like by itself and then loaded onto a 45-90 case.  These work extremely well with 45-70's too.

[safetysheriff]

Seems like everyone's interested in having them animals fall right on the spot.  Can't track?              The only deer that fell in their tracks were spine shot(as someone else posted).  I have however seen deer shot with 270's and 300 Winchesters that DID drop in their tracks, but the results were disgusting.               Easy enough to drop them like that when the whole front of the deer is destroyed.          I've no idea what the term "humane kill" means.....I would assume the only humane shot is one to the brain, where the animal's consciousness is destroyed.            I've long ago come to the conlusion that there are hunters and then there are shooters.  One hunts, and respects the animal enough to take the responsibilty of getting the max use out of what they kill...and the others talk about "performance" with no regard for the amount of the animal(s) ends up wasted..        To me, the proper caliber for a  given animal is the one that kills as quickly as possible without destroying it.....and even then there are variables on top of variables.  I'm out of breath now.

you covered a lot of ground in a somewhat judgemental postition it seems to me.....       no, i for one don't think of myself as a tracker; but do think of myself as having experience of 'humane kills' with lightning-fast expansion of bullets that caused the animal to expire quickly.    i've loaded ammo' for some landowners that has achieved those results without destroying meat!     i think the .270 example you gave is misguided --- since the results you saw were poor bullet placement i suspect.    i think the .270 is an excellent deer caliber that needs to be properly aimed at the animal to minimize destructive capability.....       your distinction of hunters vs shooters may be valid, but i'm not sure.   i don't think of those who disrespect the animal as shooters.     i think of them as ignorant.     i think of a shooter as someone whose biggest conquest/enjoyment comes from making the shot.....with all that that entails ( firearm reliability, accuracy, tuning......projectile selection, etc.)   the hunter is a person for whom the firearm is only 20% of the excercise -- i suppose.    

not trying to argue semantics, really.    i'm just thinking that your black and white view of things is possibly improper because you jump'd to conclusions about how 'shooters' look at sport hunting.    you've thrown a wide net and included people into that category who i don't think are worthy of the name.    an ignorant slob is an ignorant slob -- and not to be confused with the brotherhood of 'shooters' is all.

Take care,

SS'

[rickt300]

I've been playing with a 45-70 for a couple of years now using it on several does and feral hogs to 200 pounds with various loads and bullets. While I haven't recovered a bullet from an animal yet the only difference I can see in it's performance from the 30-30 is recoil. I do normally shoot 150 grain bullets in my 30-30 and they mostly exit (90%) on deer and make it to the far side of hogs every time. The 45-70 always exits with my loads. I like being able to hold my 30-30 gently while lining up my sights and I much favor it for shooting from tree stands. While I like my 45-70 Marlin 1895 I find it not better for my hunting use in general than the 30-30.

[Cottonwood]

While I like my 45-70 Marlin 1895 I find it not better for my hunting use in general than the 30-30.

What bullet you using in your 45-70?  

JSP or Cast

[handirifle]

Hey Montanan
That animated sharps picture is cool.

[Ditchdigger]

I've got some 300 gr. XTP's loaded to 1631fps. in my 44 mag. and as soon as I locate a willing pig,I'm going to test them. Has anyone used these before?  Digger

[JPH45]

1631? Hmmmmmmmm..............Care to share that load? Sounds fun!

[rickt300]

I have used the 300 grain Remington HP pushed by 53 grains of 3031, the 340 grain LEE cast bllet, the 350 grain Hornady RN and the 405 grain Remington, the last all pushed by 31 grains of IMR 4227 for around 1500 fps. The IMR 4227 load is my favorite as recoil is not bad and it is very accurate. The 30-30 load is 31.5 grains of 3031 under either a Hornady RN or Speer flat nose 150 grain bullet. Both my rifles are Marlin lever actions.

[Big Blue]

Hunting in eastern PA., on well used state game lands, if you don't drop a deer quick, by time you get to it someone else will be gutting it. I took a doe this year using a Horn. 350 RNSP bullet. She was walking at a brisk pace through very heavy brush, about 45 yards away, and down a hill about 40 foot higher than she was. The bullet entered high on her right shoulder, and exited low on the left side of her neck. Very little meat damage, a lot of blood loss through the exit hole, and some blood under the membrane on the hit shoulder. The bullet never encountered a bone. She was knocked off her feet and never got back up. After exiting the doe, the bullet hit a 5" tree, splitting it in half before it burried itself in the ground. The bullet took out her windpipe and a large artery in her neck. Not what you call an ideal double lung/heart shot, but it worked fine. With an elastic nylon cartridge holder on the stock, reloading was very quick, but proved unnecessary. Just a note here on the benefit of an ejector, this quick of a reload would not have been possible with an extractor. I wish I could have recovered the spent bullet, but either way it did it's job. I used Varget powder, I think it was 58.0gr.
Don

[Lone Star]

you can place the 45-70 in with the sluggun and muzzle loader group.big slow moving bullets.the bullets from these guns seldom expand....

That is not always the case.  I've taken a lot of Kodiak Island blacktails with .45-70s (the average buck was 140# dressed so they were not itty bitty whitetails).  The usual load was the 300 Hornady loaded to ca. 2100 fps; I had a 90% 'instant' drop rate.  By that I mean that the animal didn't take more than one or two steps before falling.  All hits were in the heart-lung area and most gave complete penetration. Wound channels were smaller than a .270 but showed evidence of good expansion.  One of the few bullets recovered was from a head-on shot at 225 yards, impact velocity ca. 1250 fps.  This entered where the windpipe joins the chest and was found in the rear ham, expanded to 0.65". The dead animal was literally standing in its own tracks in the snow.  I also shot a brownie with a Hornady 350 which fell at the shot.  It did get back up however.....

Why this performance with the .45-70?  These were large diameter bullets with large meplats, slapping the animal hard from the git-go.  High velocity bullets have to penetrate several inches before they mushroom enough to transfer much shock/energy/momentum.  The 300s are still going fast enough to produce secondary projectiles from bone splinters, etc.  

I've yet to see a Forrester shotgun slug not expand on deer, although I've only seen three so shot.   Ditto with soft-lead muzzleloader bullets - they tend to mushroom very well.