Bullet Advice For Better Performance on Deer

[Will_C]

Good news! I shot my first muzzle loader deer this year. I am using an Encore .50 cal. My load is 110 T7 FFG behind a 200gr. T/C Shockwave. The load groups into 1.25" @ 100 yards and loads easy. I am looking for comments about the performance on deer.
The first deer I shot was a 95lb. (dressed) doe. I shot this deer at a lasered 87 yards. The shot was through the lungs, with a good inch sized exit hole. There was very little blood, and none of the bubbly spray that has been my experience with lung shots. The deer ran 60-80 yards and expired just out of sight.
The second deer was a 108lb. 4 point buck. This deer was shot at 93 yards, quartering to me. The shot entered the shoulder, broke the upper leg bone just below the shoulder blade, continuing throgh the lungs and did not exit. I could not find a speck of blood to suggest a hit, and the deer made it into a thicket and expired. It only traveled 70 yards or so, but it took two of use some time to find, as there was no sign of a hit.
Question, am I expecting too much? I have killed 20 or so with slugs, and 10-12 with a rifle. I know that deer don't always "drop and flop" like they do on TV :lol: , but hits like I have described have given better results with shotgun and rifle. Any suggestions for a change in bullet for next year? Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give some background about what I am searching for.
Thanks , Will

[DannoBoone]

So far, yours is the first post I've seen by someone using the 200 with less
than desirable results (may be more, but this is the only one I've seen).
Seems that most are connecting, and the deer go less than 20 yards. My
8-pointer just went a couple of feet - straight down. In these cases, there
isn't much need of a blood trail.

Sometimes a 250 SST/SW will do much the same that the 200 did in your
case. Sometimes the 300 SST/SW will just punch a hole through the
chest cavity on a broadside shot, but it more than likely would have
passed through the buck ya got, with PLENTY of blood trail.

If you want to be pretty darned certain that you will have a blood trail,
PR Dead Center .40/50 240gr bullets should shoot well in your Encore. I've
had good luck with QT .40/50 235gr bullets with broadside shots, but it
wouldn't pass through on a type of shot you took with the buck. My Encore
has taken a few deer with the PR DC .40/50 200gr bullets, but weren't
accurate enough to reliably hit the kill zone beyond 100 yards. Even with
these, all but one were pass-throughs, and that one was shot the length
wise into the body (dead deer, though).

There are no doubt others out there, that's just my experience other
than using light XTP's (180 & 200gr -- no pass-throughs, but killed the
deer in short order).

So far, I'm very happy with the 200SW and went with it because the
PR bullets wouldn't stand up to the speeds out of my new Savage.  

[AndyHass]

I use the same load out of an Omega.  Both deer I shot were hit high in the lungs, had plenty of "spray" on exit, and dropped in their tracks.
  Deer react differently to seemingly identical hits.  One factor that seems to hold true though is that more aerodynamic bullets tend to cause a little less damage and shock at short (less than 100 yd) ranges.  Obviously a big fat hollowpoint will expand better than an SST or Shockwave.  However if you plan on shooting over 100 yards, the increased energy retained by the more aerodynamic bullet can make up the difference because it will simply hit with more energy.
   Personally, I've shot deer with the Buffalo Ball-et,  240gr Hornaday HTP, PR 235gr QT, PR 195gr DC, and 200gr Shockwave.  I never had a chest-shot deer make it more than 30-40 yards.  Some didn't bleed much, but there is little excuse for having problems finding a deer that runs less than 40 yds no matter the cover simply because there isn't much land to search.
   The most consistent "dropper" was the HTP, the only hollowpoint of the bunch.  After that the results followed the weight...heavier bullets dropped deer quicker.  THe soft lead construction of PR bullets add another variable, as I found that the 195gr DC would expand really well if it passed through significant bone or muscle and not just 1 rib and 2 lungs.

[Will_C]

Danno; Thanks for the PM.
I have another tag left, so I will hopefully get a chance to try the Shockwaves again. I know that two shots are not a scientific experiment, and all the good reports I have read are encouraging. As I posted before, I don't expect lung shot deer  to drop, but I expect a better blood trail. I also know that deer don't bleed that much from a frontal shot, but I do like to see a little blood to confirm a hit. I really like the accuracy and loading ease of the Shockwaves, and the lessened recoil of the 200 gr. bullet is appreciated. I'll see if I get better results.
Thanks, Will

[jbtazgrabber]

the better half and i have 4 deer so far this year and are shooting 80 gr. rs with a 250 gr. hornady xtp bullet an sabots...her first was a 82 # doe at 40 yds. she hit right behind shoulder blade...bullet stopped just to the inside of the opposite side rear quarter....the recovered bullet expanded to a nickel.....she died right there on the spot...the second and third i shot both in the neck good exit holes of course no travel......her last buck was 86 # dressed  was shot at 25 yds...bullet entered in the shoulder low, broke shoulder ...went into chest barely....went out not hitting anything...just under heart...went out other shoulder about a 1 in . hole ... she knocked it down but it got right up and ran 30 yds...an laid down, but it wouldnt ...couldnt ???get up ...i put a shot in neck at 12 yds with a 50 cal tc.bullet it did not expand but sure made him go down and kick a lot....i went and grabbed the horns and was about to slice his throat when he  stood up. i still had a hold of his horns but i did get him back on ground.  my wife was sure getting excited  :twisted: this was her first buck and i'm wrestling with it....i got my knife and finally got it in and stopped the fight... :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D ther was no blood at first but the last 10 there was...this is the fastest killed deer ive ever shotor seen in 20 yaers hunting with a ft. stuffer...i usally shoot 54 cal. and balls  im not happy with the 365 gr. tc lead bullet but i wont evergo to lead again it will be xtps  from now on   JB

[rickyp]

Just a week ago I shot a nice doe at 70 yards. the shot took out the lungs. I didn't have a single drop of blood. The only way I knew I killed her was I heard her fall (I just love the Pro ears stalker muffs) I had to track her by following other signs and clues. I shot her with a 12 ga slug.
During Md's Early muzzle loading season I shot a nice buck at a distance of 10 feet the bullet took out both lungs and the heart. I couldn't find any thing in the chest but goo. the deer ran about 50 yards  but didn't loose a single drop of blood until it fell dead. The load was 100 gr of pyrodex and Barnes 300 gr bullet.

Last year I have shot several deer using 90 grs of pyrodex P under Hornady 240 gr xtp mag 45 cal bullets. I didn't recover a single deer. I know some where a clean miss others I knew I hit soundly I even dropped one in her tracks  only to get up and run,  not one of them lost a single drop of blood for me to track I did everything I could do to find them but with out any blood or any other sings to follow it was a lost cause.
What I have learned is if the deer is shot high the deer has to fill up before it starts to leak out while you are waiting for it to start to leak you need  to watch the deer and follow the signs and clues.
look for up turned leaves watch what way she ran listen for it to fall

[Keith Lewis]

I agree that the plastic tip bullets may be too protected to function well at close range. I just shot an elk with both a 300gr. Hornady SST and a follow up shot with a 295gr. Powerbelt Aerotip. Both bullets passed completely through the chest cavity of the elk and exited leaving about a 1 inch hole. Not a lot of blood was noted on the first bullet and only after tracking some distance did blood become obvious. The elk was difficult to put down even with the first shot which passed through the liver and one lung. The second shot passed just rearward of the first and missed the other lung. The shots were at less than 100 yards and powered by 80gr. of Black Mag3. I think the next time I get to hunt elk I will be using the hollow point bullet configuration without a plastic tip. I did finally catch up with the elk and finish it with a head shot but the chase and tracking was difficult due to lack of snow and heavy rain just previous to the shot.

[7mm MAGNUM]

I'm using the Hornady 300 grain XTP/HP pills with a sleeve in .44 caliber out of my .50 cal and they work great. Good penetration and expansion.

[msdh]

Ive shot about 2 dozen deer with the Hornady 300 grain XTP over 100 to 110 grain charges.  I have only recovered 2 and both were expanded nicely.  Ranges have been from 10 yards to 160.  Have broken both front shoulders of deer at 140 yards.  They have always left a good blood trail, though most deer traveled less than 50 yards.  As far as accuracy goes I have always got them to shoot about 1.5 inches or better at 100 yards.  Ive tried other bullets and some shoot even better in my rifles. I know some say these arent that great because they dont have a great ballistic coeficient.  But to me muzzleloading is a 150 yard to 170 yard maximum range game.   But these bullets have penetration , expansion and accuracy.  What more could anyone ask for?

[Will_C]

That sounds like a bullet to try out. I hunt in an area where 180 yards or so is the longest possible shot, and I doubt I would have to shoot that far ever. What is the trajectory of the 300 grain Hornady? If I can get 180 yards with no more than +/- 3", I would be very happy. The performance you mention is just what I am looking for.
Will

[YoungPupNE]

I am new to muzzleloading.  I'm trying to read a lot a say very little.  In my new CVA Optika .50 caliber, I'm using 70 grains of 777 FFg and PowerBelt 295 grain hollowpoint with copper coating.  I asked Hodgdon, PowerBelt, and CVA for some info on a load I used.  Here is a great response I got from PowerBelt when I told them I am shooting about 1/2" groups at 50 yards, 1" high of center:

M.V.    1580 fps
M.E.    1636 ft lbs
 
50 YARDS     1.0"
velocity          1504 fps
energy           1292 ft lbs
 
70 YARDS     3/4" high
velocity          1340 fps
energy           1176 ft lbs

You will be zeroed at 90 yards with a Muzzle Velocity of 1282 and a the Energy at 1077 ft lbs. Plenty of power for the job.

[sabotloader]

Just adding my 2cents - I am using a 260 grain Nosler Partition HP.  This is really probably to much bullet for Whitetail but it sure works well.  I have shot two nice Whitetail that dropped in their tracks, both of these deer were quartering to me and the bullet enter in from of of the right front shoulder and exited behind the left sholder.  In both of these deer the chest cavity was complete mush, all the vitals were completely exploded by the shock of the HP.  The Whitetail I shot this year was a broadside at 60 yards - real small deer 74#'s deressed.  The bullet entered behind the right shoulder broke one rib exitied out the other side breaking another rib and a part of the shoulder blade.  Thank you very much for the blood trail because she ran off probably 30 yards and collapsed - but in the brush I really need the blood trail to follow her.  Without the trail it would have taken a bit of walking to find her.  

I am really sold on the 260 - the ballistics are really good.  Everything I read about the 200 is also good but I prefer the partition and solid penetration that i know I will get from the Nosler.

Anyway, just my 2 cents...

[retrieverhunter]

I have 2 cents too.  I am new to muzzleloading but have probably fired 250 rounds through my gun this year in preparation for an Oklahoma hunt in October.  I am using 130 gr Pyrodex pellets and 250 gr Barnes Expander MZ bullets and have killed 7 deer with this load (4 this year) and only had one take a single step.  Last week, I "lined up" 2 does and dropped them both with one shot in their tracks with a complete pass through on both deer.  I have some Hornady 250 gr SST's ordered to try since the reviews have been good from others on these forums using them but am having trouble leaving a tried and true performer(for me anyway).

[Will_C]

Thanks for the continued responses. I did not use the gun again this year, but I am going to use some Christams cash to lay in some bullets for testing. I use more Nosler bullets than anything else in centerfire rifles, so I had already planned on testing those. Good to hear a positive report. The Barnes also are included in the plans.
Youngpup: sounds like you have came up with a good load. I am interested in higher power loads, not for power but for trajectory. I hunt in an area where slugs are required, and my favorite stand overlooks a brushfield where shots of up to 185 yards are possible. I have made a couple 150 yard shots with my slug gun through the years from that stand, but the Encore groups about 400% tighter than the slug gun, and the trajectory is much better than with the slug gun. I know that with a 110-130 grain T7 load and a 2" high zero at 100 yards, I am 5-6" low out at 180 or so. That's what I need from this muzzleloader.
Will

[YoungPupNE]

Sounds like you've done your research and are ready to go.  Good luck!  Be sure to tell everyone how it turns out!