Author Topic: Very confused about this.. (Read 958 times)

Turkey Talker · « **on:** December 23, 2004, 02:53:18 PM »

I'm from the old board,before it shut down.I just found yall today,and I'm glad I did. Now for the question. All along we have been sending receivers back to the factory to get barrels added. I just looked at the classified section and there are people selling barrels on there. Is buying a barrel safe to do without going through the factory,or is it that the factory just wants the extra 15 bucks per fit? I've always been cofused on how Thompson Center will just sell the barrel and let it go to the consumer without checking anything,and H&R,New England wants the reciever and all back. Maybe I'm reading to deep into it because one could get extra barrels at a good price and at a faster rate doing this. Someone set me straight,I've got my eye on another barrel. Thanks.

single shot shooter · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2004, 03:04:51 PM »

It would be nice if H&R made the barrels to just drop in. I think they dont have thier tolerances close enough and it's all about lawsuits too, they dont want people buying a .308 barrel to put in a pardner frame and get injured and then they will have a lawsuit. They make you send it in so they make sure you arent putting it on too old a frame or a shotgun frame. I think it could be about the extra $15 bucks too :wink:

cattleskinner · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2004, 03:20:34 PM »

I think what it is is that people decided to "experiment", and try their barrels from different rifles to fit on other recievers that they might have. While the tolerences aren't 100% true from rifle to rifle, they are pretty close. Most people are taking their chances on getting a barrel they buy to lock up with the proper headspace on their reciever. It might void their warranty, but like you said, it might be the need to get a new barrel w/o waiting for the factory, the new fitting charge, or that the company is worried about lawsuits, and puts that disclaimer in to cover their butts....who knows? But needless to say, yes it's the same procedure as before w/ the factory, people are just taking matters in their own hands.

~~~Cattleskinner

Markus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:18:38 PM »

The manufacturing tolerances on T&Cs are much tighter, but along with that comes the much higher price. I bought a Barrel from MSP Ret that has worked great. It locks up tight as any H&R I've ever seen. I don't think the barrel accessory program is a huge money maker for H&R. I may be wrong but I've known lots of folks over the years that have owned these guns and I've never known one that has actually sent one in. I don't think there is even a majority of people on the board that have done it. I think it's just some thing they keep going for their serious enthusiasts The Handiholics as they're called on the rifle board. I plan to do it in the near future but then again I have had that same plan for quite a while. With the shotgun barrels the relatively low cost of a new gun make it hard to justify sending it back. If you buyused barrel from some one for $35.00 it's not that big a deal if it don't fit.

jvs · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2004, 12:32:13 AM »

You can bet that at the end of the fiscal year HR/NEF makes a good profit at their Barrel Program. If it didn't pay the bills and have a tidy profit, they wouldn't do it. Having to send a whole single-shot shotgun back to the factory for another barrel is not only asinine but costly for their customers.

Which may explain why they don't supply any firearms for the Military, who insists on having replacement parts changed at a moments notice in combat conditions. I can't imagine anybody in Iraq or Afghanistan needing to wait 4 weeks to get a shotgun back.

All HR/NEF does is justify their own existence, or they would sell package units with more than one barrel.

With what Rossi is doing now with package deals, maybe HR/NEF will wake up before they go belly up.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2004, 07:14:01 AM »

half_inch_group Maybe, just maybe, they don't supply the military because the military is not really into buying single-shots. I suppose H&R shows a profit at the end of the fiscal year but that is what companies strive for. I don't have a problem with the requirement to send in the receiver to have a new barrel fitted. That way H&R is protected from the less than careful user of their product.
I also have no problem with buying/trading for a barrel to see if it will fit. Most of the time it will fit or can be fitted easily. If you know what receiver you have and what barrels will works "pressure-wise" with that receiver then it is no big deal.
btw H&R/NEF does sell "package units". I like Rossi single shots also. But I don't think you or anyone has sent a reciever back to them for a new barrel or ordered a barrel from them yet. So that is "score one for H&R".

Markus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2004, 07:53:55 AM »

H&R doesn't supply anything for the military right now that I know of but they have a rich history as far as military arms. I'm no historian but I know they produced a pile of M1s. When I was an MP we had a couple 32ga tranquilizer guns for animal control that were based on the break open single shot action. Unless they have stopped they sell all sorts of combos as well. For the price they can't be beat. The rossis just seem kinda cheesy to me and they're not made in the good ole U.S.A.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2004, 09:34:01 AM »

Markus, I like the H&R/NEF more than the Rossi. But they are both pretty gun single shots, so I have both. I had to struggle with the "Buy American" thing when I first considered Rossi. So I rationalized it this way. The particular caliber/combo I wanted was not available from H&R. And even tho the importer and "MOM&POP" may have sent their money to Brazil for that Rossi, I was paying Mom&Pop, so they could stay in business and I could buy more guns from them. Hey It works for me.

jvs · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2004, 12:36:56 PM »

Keeping a shotgun for four weeks to make sure another barrel fits is just a scam HR/NEF plays on the customers. It's not a 500 piece puzzle.

Like I said before, a program like that just justifies their own existence. Seems to me that they have no confidence in either their own manufacturing process or the quality control practices. All businesses are in business to make money but some practices should be looked at harder.

Don't get me wrong, a HR/NEF firearm is a cheap alternative to alot of other makes, and usually gets the job done with enough dependability. BUT, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to call them up and have a shotgun barrel sent to your home without all that other crap involved.

I often wonder what kind of files HR/NEF keeps on their customers because they wouldn't know who owns one untill you tell them you do, or if they end up selling your name to other outfits that send you alot of junk mail.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2004, 01:45:26 PM »

Now this thread is starting to get paranoid. If you don't like H&R and don't want to do business with them by all means DON'T. If you want higher quality workmanship then pay for it. These ARE good firearms at a reasonable price. IF they had to do everything the way the higher priced boys do guess what a handi-rifle would cost?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2004, 03:31:55 PM »

:agree:

lik2hunt · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2004, 03:55:26 PM »

Uhhhh.....in an attempt to answer the original question, the selling and trading of barrels without the proper fitting done by the factory is discouraged by H&R/NEF to say the least, but it can be done and is being done on a regular basis. First of all if you don't know how to fit or what to look for in the fit of a barrel to any H&R/NEF reciever then don't try it. But if you school yourself in the different calibers and pressures of those calibers then you can safely do some of your own fitting. A good rule of thumb here is any of the barrels listed in the accessory program list at the H&R website with an asterisk require a bit more attention and question by the buyer before fitting without a good gunsmith inspection and should never be attached to any SB-1 shotgun style reciever for firing. The lower pressure barrels are the ones listed without asterisks and can be fitted to any SB-1 or SB-2 frame without much danger. I am presently shooting a 30-30 barrel on a Huntsman frame and have fired a .223 bull from a Pardner frame safely. I also own an old .410 barrel from one of the "Topper 88" -s that I use on a Pardner frame and did have a 20 gauge "Topper" barrel that I shot from the same frame. I wouldn't, however, even attempt to put my 7x64 Brenneke barrel on any of the Huntsman, or Pardner, or new Topper frames. Many here have succesfully traded high pressure barrels and fitted them to their SB-2 frames and have had great success in doing so. Some require a few tricks and some lock right up. If I'm not mistaken I would bet that my good friend, MSP Ret may speak up here now.

Busta · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2004, 04:06:34 PM »

H&R made M-79 Grenade Launchers for the military also. It is a break open design with a stock an would shoot 40mm High Explosive grenades, tear gas, flares, smoke, multiple projectile (buck shot) and practice grenades (orange talcum powder) to name a few. The M-79 was only 1 gun which had to be carried along with your rifle or handgun. The XM-148 and M-203 grenade launchers mounted on the bottom of the M-16 rifle and were easier to carry since it was an all in one package and pretty much phased out the M-79, but only due to practicality.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:01:20 AM »

Hi Guys and thanks lik2hunt, I would respond but you pretty well said it all, and very well also!!!

Busta'yote, Great info, also, if I'm not mistaken didn't H&R also make at least the M-14 for the military and quite possibly another long gun or 2, perhaps the M-1, on government contract? You occasionally see H&R demilled recievers on e-bay.

....<><.... :grin:

Busta · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:46:12 AM »

MSP Ret,

I believe you are correct, I'm not a military small arms historian, but the M-1 and the M-14 were manufactured by a few arms manufacturers. Some were better than others and are sought after. The above post is from my own personal experience with the M-79.

Merry Christmas to everyone!

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:50:52 AM »

OK Busta, Im not a small arms or militaria expert or historian either, but if I remember correctly didn't the M-79's come loaded with HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) rounds also?....<><.... :grin:

Turkey Talker · « **Reply #16 on:** December 25, 2004, 10:55:21 AM »

I really didn't mean to start a big debate over this. If I knew enough to fit my own barrel I would.I'd love to get my hands on a slug barrel for my Pardner 20 ga. As it is now I'll probably just buy a whole new gun. Yes,these are low priced rifles,that get the job done quite well. I know that thses firearms sometimes have problems,but I'd rather have problems with a $200 gun than with a $500 Encore. Just my .02. Thanks for the opinions and answers. :-)

Markus · « **Reply #17 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:38:59 PM »

I've got an Encore and I haven't really had time to get to know it yet but the few times I have shot it did'nt impress me a lot. It's not a shooter right out of the box. Keep watching gunbroker for a tracker. I just picked one up for $82.00 and it's ported to boot.