New to a muzzle loader and need opinions

[Monte]

I want to get a muzzle loader to hunt with next year.  which one is the most accurate in a 50 cal.  Long range accuracy matters more then money for this one.  saw most of the big bucks this year at 200-300 yards and my 44 mag will just not accurately reach that far.

[AndyHass]

The most important thing to have for shooting a deer at 300 yards is the ability to make the shot time after time...no gun will make up for a lack of skill on the part of the shooter.  So assuming you feel confident in your abilities to shoot that far....
   My choice is the Omega...mine has the thumbhole stock.  It is a very nice gun, easy to clean, and accurate with the high BC 200gr Shockwave bullet at 2115 fps over 110 gr 777 FFg powder.
   Another excellent choice is the T/C Encore.  More pricey, but can also accept centerfire/shotgun barrels.  Has an adjustable trigger, the one flaw in the Omega.  Has some shortcomings...the hinge pin can have issues, and so can the "bedding" of the forearm.  Some people also find the barrels very finicky and won't shoot high charges with high BC bullets.
   My final recommendation would be the Knight Disc Elite.  Personally I detest the proprietary Discs and the secondary safety system, but many sources convince me this gun has a slight accuracy advantage over the T/C guns (out of the box).  It also seems to shoot a wider variety of bullets well.  It is harder to clean than the T/C guns though.

[Keith Lewis]

Boy, I think you are asking for a lot. I know some of the muzzleloader guys shoot that far but I personally will not as the kill zone is pretty small by the time you get to 200 yards plus. I'm sure my Omega .50 will shoot well enough at that range off the bench to do the job but I'm not sure that in the high excitement state that I can shoot that well. I never seem to get bench rest shots at game. If you are going only for deer you might consider a .45 for the increased velocity and flatter trajectory but you will also be losing energy faster at longer range. I'm sure you will get more input as this hits eveyone.

[buckslayer]

true the .45 mz has up to 2500 fps at the muzzle, but the light bullet and low BCmakes it hit at 200 yds about 650 ft-lbs of energy. this is NOT enough to cleanly take even a large doe much less the"big boys". a .50 cal w/ 3 pyrodex pellets the bullet hits with over 1000 ft/lbs at 200 yds, when using a 250 gr bullet. if smokeless pouder is leagl for muzzle loaders in your part, lokk long and hard at the savage ii10 muzzle loader. but if your using a .44 mag rifles obvously are leagal, so wy not a .270 .280 or .300 mag for those looooong shots??
buckslayer

[Nic_58]

I agree with Andy on this one.  The Omega .50 w/ 200 gr. Shockwaves over 110 T7ffg is a good start.  Also, the Knight Disc Elite shooting the same load will get the job done also.  If you can get them to group well with higher powder charges, say 120 grs. or so of T7ffg, then all the better because you will need all the energy you can muster to make shots from 200-300 yds. with a ML.  Good luck!

[AndyHass]

The kill zone is the same size at 300 yards as 100....it's just harder to hit!  :wink:
  Seriously, if you are not 100% confident in shooting that far than DON'T do it.  Even with my flat-shooting setup I won't take a shot that looks over 150 yards without laser-verifying the range first...and I'll range anything that looks 100 if I have time, just to make sure.  I have seem too many people offhand and "hold over" at deer.  Long shots take skill, time, and patience.  And yes, you basically need to have a "bench setup", like a good bipod or shooting sticks, to make the shot.
  There are currently 2 good light bullets that have 300 yard potential...the 200 gr Shockwave and 195 gr DC.  They are the two highest BC ML bullets I've found.  They make a 175gr DC, but it has a lower BC so you don't gain anything at long range from the slight velocity increase.  There are a number of heavier bullets good to that range too...the 250gr Shockwave and all of the DC bullets in .40 caliber.  But they are going to drop more, and due to the lower BC most of them won't really deliver that much more energy, either.
   Precision Rifle has a lot of good, high BC bullets, but I've never gotten one over 2000 FPS and maintained accuracy.  They are pure lead so I think they begin to deform (though the owner will claim you can get 2300 fps no problem, I have never known someone to do this).  If you can drive a heavier one, like the 240gr DC, to 2000 fps, you will have a great deer killer.  I'm going to try that one yet just didn't have time before the season.  But since you can drive the 250 gr Shockwave to higher velocities, you might deliver more energy with it.
   I don't think there is a huge difference in attainable velocity between the .45 and the .50 anymore.   This would have been the case with the 195gr DC, but the available double-saboting system has pretty much solved this.  The .50 leaves you with a much better bullet selection.

[Monte]

I use a 44 mag handgun and have take deer at 100 yards without an issue.  Not concerned with my ability but the ability of the rifle to group well and to have the knockdown power.

[tscott]

Check out the model 420 at www.austinhalleck.com..

[jeff223]

all you will need is a KNIGHT RIFLE or a THOMPSON CENTER :wink:

the only things to think about now is "KNIGHT OR TC"??that is the question?? :lol:

[oneshotonekill]

If money is not an issue check out the Ultimate BP Express http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/  its definitely long range capable.

[Birddog 1]

Would you use a 30/30 to shoot a whitetail at 200 plus yards I don't think so so don't ask a smokepole to do something that is not ethical. I am sick and tired of people wanting to use a muzzle loader for LONG RANGE SHOOTING  hell go bye a 300 Win Mag. There I vented  :evil:

[AndyHass]

And explain to us why shooting a whitetail with a bullet retaining 800-1000 fpe is unethical?
   If you assume all ML's are a "30-30", then you need to learn a little more about what is going on before you go calling people unethical.
   Do you really believe you need a 300 MagnumMeatPulverizer to kill a whitetail anyways?
    I take it you wouldn't flinch at someone shooting a deer with a traditional roundball at 80-100 yards.  A 200 or 250 gr Shockwave will retain more energy at 300 yards than that roundball will.  Just who is more unethical?

[DEPUTY]

ah the  uninformed, get off the couch, get your gun rigged up and go shoot the silly thing and see for yourself  those that say it cant be cant do it!  because they refuse to belive it! until they see it

[DannoBoone]

Monte -

Dunno what state you are from, but if legal where you hunt, the Savage
10ML-II is a heck of a good rifle. It took me quite a few different loads to
come up with the best accuracy, but finally got 3/4" @ 150yds using the
200gr SW. The 8-pointer it got this fall with a shoulder shot never knew
what hit him (but it was only at 90yds).  I've read about others reaching
out & nailing them with 200-300yd shots this year, though.

A guy's wife from another forum got a mulie with her Omega using the
200SW @ 308yds and dropped him in his tracks.  It was stressed that she
did not just load and shoot this fall. She had been practicing at various
ranges out to 300 yards all summer.

I have an Encore, but even with two different barrels, have not gotten
groups I would trust to accurately get a deer beyond 150yds (3-4" groups).

Whatever ya end up getting, ya need to practice at the ranges you plan
to shoot, and use a range finder when out in the field for any shots
beyond 200yds. Even the highest ML BC bullets really start dropping
beyond 250yds, and a guesstimate of 25yds off around the 300yd range
can get ya not much more than the 'ol white flag.

....and if you have bagged 'em @ 100yds with a handgun, then ya don't
need anyone lecturing ya about a rest of some sort. The only off-hand
shots I take with the ML are within 50yds - other than that I always have
a rest, even if it's just leaning up against a tree (like this year).

Happy shoppin'!

[Monte]

I will look at the omega.  i shoot all year long and practice at the ranges I expect to shoot.  IE my scoped FA 44 mag is set for 100 yards.  with a 18" drop at 200.  I know my limits.  Passed on a buck this year at 145 beacause i did not have a solid rest to shoot from, in the middle of a field.  I appreciate the info.  Have a great christmas everyone.

[retrieverhunter]

Opinions are like elbow; everyone has a couple.  I SHOOT a Knight original Disc 50 cal converted to the Extreme ignition system.  Mine has a 24" barrel and is scoped with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14.  I also OWN a T/C Encore ML and have just purchased a Knight Disc Elite 50 cal.  I still use Pyrodex and shoot 130 gr with Barnes Expander MZ 250 gr.  I have shot and hunted with my Knight for 3 years but have never been on a "muzzleloader hunt" until this fall when I went to Oklahoma.  I probably shot 250 times in preparation for this hunt and am confident I can kill out to 200 yards (with a 13" hold over).   Fortunately I killed my 178 B&C buck at 25 yards.  My personal feeling here is not which gun or bullet but what YOU can do with it.  In todays market, I believe most brands of ML's are pretty much equal and it is your job to find a powder/bullet combo that your gun of choice likes.  I CAN'T/WON'T shoot over 200 yards, but if you can, more power to you.  PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!