Fox news related a news item the other night...

[ironglow]

Let's see now FW...
We should reward ALL school teachers, govt. workers, bank employees and school kids with a day off...that veterans deserve...if anyone does.

   You say these are just "honoring" their fellow citizens that served...
  I don't see all these folks visiting VA hospitals or military parks or even placing flowers and flags on veteran's graves...how are they "honoring their fellow citizens that served" ?

   Yes I honestly believe that when we are called to serve in wartime, thjose that are able and DO serve should be rated a small notch above those that are able and DO NOT serve....no aristocracy, just respect and appreciation.

   Yet, as I said before...some folks will never understand the "warrior psyche" nor the nobility of selflessly serving.

[FWiedner]

Let's see now FW...
We should reward ALL school teachers, govt. workers, bank employees and school kids with a day off...that veterans deserve...if anyone does.

   You say these are just "honoring" their fellow citizens that served...
  I don't see all these folks visiting VA hospitals or military parks or even placing flowers and flags on veteran's graves...how are they "honoring their fellow citizens that served" ?

   Yes I honestly believe that when we are called to serve in wartime, thjose that are able and DO serve should be rated a small notch above those that are able and DO NOT serve....no aristocracy, just respect and appreciation.

   Yet, as I said before...some folks will never understand the "warrior psyche" nor the nobility of selflessly serving.

Well..., my thought was that an honorable man would gain some pleasure in seeing his countrymen enjoy the hard won fruits of his labor, and find some peace and dignity in knowing that he did his part.  The realization that he leaves a legacy of freedom that his countrymen might cherish and enjoy seems a fine honor.

I thought the whole purpose was to ensure that ALL Americans might live and be able to enjoy that liberty gained by the blood and dire-effort of those who found the courage to step into the arena.

Rationing special privileges out to a selected few and then telling everyone else that they don't really qualify to be free sounds Orwellian to me.

Rather like: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[Dali Llama]

Rationing special privileges out to a selected few and then telling everyone else that they don't really qualify to be free sounds Orwellian to me.

Rather like: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Dali Llama say he must agree with FWiedner.

[ironglow]

FW....you just proved my point! Since there are millions who have served their country, often in dangerous situations....why is the mostly "paid holiday", most often given to one who did not serve, while those who did, for the most part don't get the opportunity.

   Are the "animals" as you call them , that work for the govt in civilian positions, better or somehow more worthy than veterans or others that work in private jobs rather than for govt?
   
  The very rule you're defending has it's own exclusionary, preferential rules...

[FWiedner]

FW....you just proved my point! Since there are millions who have served their country, often in dangerous situations....why is the mostly "paid holiday", most often given to one who did not serve, while those who did, for the most part don't get the opportunity.

   Are the "animals" as you call them , that work for the govt in civilian positions, better or somehow more worthy than veterans or others that work in private jobs rather than for govt?
   
  The very rule you're defending has it's own exclusionary, preferential rules...

I guess I just don't see why a fellow would have hard feelings about seeing his fellow Americans taking advantage of something that he himself busted his ass so that they could have.

Seems kinda like "indian-giving".

[Graybeard]

FW some times your logic makes absolutely no sense at all to me. This is one of those times. Just does not compute.

[FWiedner]

FW some times your logic makes absolutely no sense at all to me. This is one of those times. Just does not compute.

Well, let's try it this way...

A fellow volunteers to serve his country.  His intent is to ensure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity.  He goes to war, or some terrible place, does that dirty job and comes home.

His nation is so grateful that they dedicate a national holiday to him and his fellows veterans.

But when his fellow Americans actually have the nerve to celebrate and exercise that liberty that he fought to make sure that they have, he gets pissed off because his civilian employer can't afford to give him the day off.

He's defended his nation and served his people.  He's made his mark and has been celebrated.  He lives in a country that remains free due, in no small part, to his efforts.

Assuming that he doesn't work at the Somalian consulate or in some other socialist hell-hole, he is free to enjoy the fruits of his labor from the system of free enterprise which he helped to defend.  But he's pissed because he doesn't get the day off.  The day he help to create by his former deeds, and that is being celebrated by many of his fellow Americans.

I'm sorry, but that seems self-centered, maybe even selfish, to me.

Whatever happened to finding satisfaction in a job well-done?

Veterans have earned and deserve the gratitude of their countrymen, but there's just something that rubs me wrong about a man whining that he doesn't get enough pats on the back.

[Mauser]

FW:

I agree with you.  Our society is predicated, in part, upon the lack of a special, privileged groups of people.  No one, no matter how heroic or virtuous, should be given special privileges in our society.   At least this is how it is supposed to work in theory.  I served in the USMC and I didn't sign up because I thought I might be a hero or be worshiped someday.  We don't want those types in anyway.

[Dali Llama]

   Are the "animals" as you call them , that work for the govt in civilian positions, better or somehow more worthy than veterans or others that work in private jobs rather than for govt?
   
 

Do FWiedner actually think all civil servants be "animals," ask Dali Llama? :?

[FWiedner]

   Are the "animals" as you call them , that work for the govt in civilian positions, better or somehow more worthy than veterans or others that work in private jobs rather than for govt?
   
 

Do FWiedner actually think all civil servants be "animals," ask Dali Llama? :?

I didn't intend to call anyone an animal, or even to refer to anyone as an animal.

Have Dali not ever heard George Orwell signature quote from book "Animal Farm"?

[Dali Llama]

   Are the "animals" as you call them , that work for the govt in civilian positions, better or somehow more worthy than veterans or others that work in private jobs rather than for govt?
   
 

Do FWiedner actually think all civil servants be "animals," ask Dali Llama? :?

I didn't intend to call anyone an animal, or even to refer to anyone as an animal.

Have Dali not ever heard George Orwell signature quote from book "Animal Farm"?

Dali Llama say yes, of course he hear of such quote.  Dali say he apologize, as he now see how ironglow apparently, and most likely inadvertently, mischaracterize FWiedner's earlier commentary.

[Graybeard]

Sorry FW, still don't compute. To the best of my knowledge the only folks who get the holiday off are government civil service employees. Yes I was one and yes I took the day off and appreciated being off. But honestly that made us "civil servants" the priviledged class you speak so eloquently against. We did nothing to earn it. The folks whom it celebrated didn't/don't get it off unless they are civil servants. Neither does the general popluace.

I think having it a holiday is great. I do not think civil servants should get to take off that day. If anyone should in my mind it's those military guys and gals it honors.

This is one of those me and you just gonna hafta agree to disagree on. Don't think either of us ever gonna see it the other's way. But that too is OK. I see no reason why you and I or you and anyone or me and anyone should always agree. Having differing viewpoints is what makes us individuals.

[Dali Llama]

I do not think civil servants should get to take off that day.

Why not, inquire Dali Llama? :?  :?  :?

[twodollarpistol]

If my mule was in a ditch and I could not get it out myself, then a neighbor took it upon himself to get down in the mud and filth and get it out for me, I would give thanks and honor to the neighbor. Not someone else down the street that had nothing to do with it. If I couldn't honor and thank the one responsible for ending my predicament, I wouldn't thank anybody. If I give him a party to honor his selfless sacrifice on my behalf and others wanted to attend that would be great. But if he cant attend....we aint havin no party. It was his effort and sacrifice that should be honored and rewarded, not the man that totes him his mail.

[Graybeard]

If my mule was in a ditch and I could not get it out myself, then a neighbor took it upon himself to get down in the mud and filth and get it out for me, I would give thanks and honor to the neighbor. Not someone else down the street that had nothing to do with it. If I couldn't honor and thank the one responsible for ending my predicament, I wouldn't thank anybody. If I give him a party to honor his selfless sacrifice on my behalf and others wanted to attend that would be great. But if he cant attend....we aint havin no party. It was his effort and sacrifice that should be honored and rewarded, not the man that totes him his mail.

Dang that was GOOD! Wish I'd have come up with it. But THAT Dali is why.

[williamlayton]

YUP, YUP and amen.
PS--I would take the day off if'n they gave to me though, an, well, er thank em fer it.
Blessings

[Dali Llama]

if he cant attend....we aint havin no party. It was his effort and sacrifice that should be honored and rewarded, not the man that totes him his mail.

Dali Llama respond that Martin Luther King, Jr. not currently reside on third rock from sun, yet there exist holiday to honor him. :?  :?

[ironglow]

FW says...

   He doesn't understand "why a fellow would have hard feelings about seeing his fellow Americans taking advantage of something that he himself busted his a-- so that they could have..."


   I'm so very pleased to hear you say that FW...how many $$ in wages did you bust your a-- to earn last year?

    Just take that figure, put it in a check and send it to me...this "fellow American" will " take advantage of it" and enjoy doing it!!

    Come now...don't be an "Indian giver"!

     NUFF SAID!!!

[FWiedner]

FW says...

   He doesn't understand "why a fellow would have hard feelings about seeing his fellow Americans taking advantage of something that he himself busted his a-- so that they could have..."


   I'm so very pleased to hear you say that FW...how many $$ in wages did you bust your a-- to earn last year?

    Just take that figure, put it in a check and send it to me...this "fellow American" will " take advantage of it" and enjoy doing it!!

    Come now...don't be an "Indian giver"!

     NUFF SAID!!!

Different type of service.

I generate income to benefit myself and my family.  My employer gives me nothing as a reward for service, I earn it.  It's fair compensation, not an award for some perceived meritorious service. I do not mind at all sharing the fruits of my labor with my family.

Anyone else who wants a cut without providing some service of benefit to me or my family is a free-loader, and welcome to, or deserving of, nothing of mine but my honest contempt.

As for any comparison between my service to my family and service to my country, I begrudge my family nothing with regard to any benefit that my work may provide for them, neither do I begrudge any of my fellow Americans any benefit that they may derive from my contribution thereto.

These are distinctly different levels of service for people I care about at vastly different levels, but the desired goal is pretty much the same.

If someone is made better, or catches a break because I did my job, more power to 'em.

[Dali Llama]

Anyone else who wants a cut without providing some service of benefit to me or my family is a free-loader, and welcome to, or deserving of, nothing of mine but my honest contempt.

That be right charitable of ya, say Dali Llama. :-D    :-D

[FWiedner]

Anyone else who wants a cut without providing some service of benefit to me or my family is a free-loader, and welcome to, or deserving of, nothing of mine but my honest contempt.

That be right charitable of ya, say Dali Llama. :-D    :-D

 Well..., I am a warm, fuzzy guy.   :wink:

[Dali Llama]

Anyone else who wants a cut without providing some service of benefit to me or my family is a free-loader, and welcome to, or deserving of, nothing of mine but my honest contempt.

That be right charitable of ya, say Dali Llama. :-D    :-D

 Well..., I am a warm, fuzzy guy.  

Yep, one of them thar real touchy-feely personas, remark Dali Llama. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[ironglow]

Tsk,Tsk FW...

  You mean like "those freeloaders" that want to benefit from the day that the veterans earned!!

   I don't mind someone getting a day off for veteran's day...but the vets should be covered FIRST!

[williamlayton]

Glow-
not to argue the point--expand on "the vets should be covered first". I am not sure I understand.
Blessings

[Dali Llama]

 You mean like "those freeloaders" that want to benefit from the day that the veterans earned!!

   

Dali Llama suggest that those who happen to "benefit" from nationally observed holiday do not be "freeloaders."

[ironglow]

Dali;
  I don't think they are freeloaders either, but when I asked FW to share some of what HE EARNED...he said he didn't have time for freeloaders...check those earlier posts for my attempt at irony...

[FWiedner]

Dali;
  I don't think they are freeloaders either, but when I asked FW to share some of what HE EARNED...he said he didn't have time for freeloaders...check those earlier posts for my attempt at irony...

In reference to the Veteran's Day discussion, I'm sure that some benefit resulting from my own service is shared by my fellow Americans on Veteran's Day.

I don't have a problem with that.

That was public service.  For the benefit of the public, aka the American People.

Private endeavors for personal profit are for the benefit of whom and where I might choose.

[Dali Llama]

Private endeavors for personal profit are for the benefit of whom and where I might choose.

Just so your ol' pals at Graybeard are allowed to occasionally reap some benefits from those endeavors also, say Dali Llama!! :grin:  :lol:  :grin: