Author Topic: Powerbelt-Problems!!?? (Read 4073 times)

smoky · « **on:** March 25, 2004, 08:41:25 AM »

I was excited about this upcoming Spring and load development for my Knight Wolverine and Encore 209 x 50 using the 245 or 295 powerbelts. Yesterday, I heard of some troubling reports of that bullet actually falling out of the barrel prior to shooting, particularly in the Knight rifles. Sounds to me as if the barrel is slightly over bore or the bullet is slightly under bore.

I know some of the experts here on this forum can help me out with this one.

Is this bullet gonna be a problem solver or problem maker for me.

Smoky

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2004, 09:15:00 AM »

Quote from: smoky

Yesterday, I heard of some troubling reports of that bullet actually falling out of the barrel prior to shooting, particularly in the Knight rifles.

Never heard of that with a fouled bore-- the White slip fit method is easier to load yet. Doc White always checks to make sure he conicals are fully seated out in the woods, and hasn't found one that isn't yet!

fairchase · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:25:35 AM »

I have two Knights and a couple of friends who shoot them and none of us have ever had complaints about loose fitting PB's.
BTW, I never foul the barrel before shooting.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2004, 03:28:00 AM »

The last several Knights have been running .502" - - but they can still vary .001" or so. It is easy enough to just try them for yourself. The 348s and 405s have shot far better in my Knights, and naturally are longer.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2004, 07:06:38 AM »

Hmmm...Never heard that one...I've never had a PB fall out or move around on me while hunting with my CVA.

BLUESBERRY · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2004, 02:03:00 PM »

:eek: :eek: Smoky,, I had several conversations with the person who USED to make these bullets, when they were called Black Belts.... and that was 4 or 5 years ago??? He told me to be carefull on a (clean barrel), there is a chance it, the bullet.,, might work its way down the barrel, such as pointing the barrel downward, and bumping it as you carry it... Most muzzleloaders require a fowling shot, because the first shot is sometime a flyer?

... After that shot ,,,dont clean the barrel, and reload, and you shouldnt have any problems.... If you dont want to take a fowling shot,,, he told me to lay a piece of dental floss across the muzzle, and then insert the bullet....These bullets are under sized, and are easy to load in your barrel.. THEY use this saying ,, for the shooters who has a hard time loading theirs bullets, and requiring a second shot.... I try to make the first shot count, and not worry about the second... I personaly think these bullets are JUNK, and would not recomend them to anyone, especially for hunting. Bruce

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2004, 03:56:23 PM »

Quote from: BLUESBERRY

:eek: :eek: Smoky,, I had several conversations with the person who USED to make these bullets, when they were called Black Belts.... and that was 4 or 5 years ago???

Powerbelts were designed by Del Ramsey (MMP) -- not invented, designed. That was 20 years ago. Big Bore Express (Mike McMichael & Co.) has been making Blackbelts for years, and now makes all "Powerbelts."

Knight rifles started the rumor they were "unsafe"-------- UNTIL, they started selling "Knight Powerbelts" last year. Now, Knight feels they are "perfectly safe." I've never had one move off the powder charge, and have shot thousands. They are a long ways away from "junk"; they are merely lube-free conicals.

That said, if you have a loaded ML (but uncapped!) bouncing around on an ATV, etc., it is wise to check to make sure your bullet has not moved off the powder charge-- conical or sabot, prior to capping your rifle.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2004, 09:28:56 AM »

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=26441&sid=595fd0480c205166d3237cb49e1fb242

sabotloader · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2004, 09:09:00 AM »

"Power Belts" not to cause a big problem, and I am sure that Randy and Big 6x6 will have a comment - but I think power belts are like women - you either love or you hate 'em, you can't always live with them and you can't live without 'em. I am fortunate, I hate 'em and so far i don't need to use them.... but I have some just in case....

BLUESBERRY · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2004, 05:54:57 PM »

:oops: Ok , maybe i should of said ,they wouldnt be my first choise....At the range, i was getting flyers at times, and after some investigating, i notice some of the gas checks,had a crack in them. Each time i shot a power belt with a crack in the gas check, there,, was that flyer.. I cant afford to have flyers, on my hunting trips, so i now shoot Barnes,, 300grs. Bruce..

338WIN · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2004, 10:35:28 AM »

I HAVE had powerbelts fall out of my rilfe! I was shooting a .54 T/C Thunderhawk with 2 Pyrodex pellets and a 444gr black belt.
Suffice it to say it is surprising to see a flaming pellet exit the barrel instead of a big hunk of lead. Good thing I didn't have a shot at an elk, I would have only branded him!
Called Big Bore and they said that they had actually increased the size of the plastic disc to .005 from .001 overbore to get a better grip on the 444gr bullet. The quick check was that the plastic had gone from brown to black. I had some of both.
Needless to say, my confidence was shaken, but the explanation was reasonable, I liked the powerbelts and they shot well.
I switched to 405gr because they were available locally and they did shoot well also.
Hey guess what fell out of my rifle again! And I had been checking it frequently. Got a little paranoid.
Called the T/C folks this time and they had me send the rifle in. They were great, they wanted to check it for overbore. The T/C tech called me a few days later and said it was "extremely" overbore and that he only had one barrel on the shelf and he just didn't like the way it shot. Would it be ok if the sent me a new black diamond in .50cal?
So, all that to say, the bullets were not the problem, the barrel was all along. It sure has shaken my confidence, though.
I've since shot them in the black diamond and in a .54 cal wolverine and they shoot well out of those also.
I am going to try some of the DC'b out of both before deciding on an elk load for this year.

vinconco · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2004, 05:30:12 PM »

338 WIN wrote
Good thing I didn't have a shot at an elk, I would have only branded him!

I did have it happen while hunting deer. The expression on the deers face when the burning pellets whizzed by was the only plus side to the experience.

I was shooting Black belts over 2 pyro pellets in a spit patched barrel on a cold day

daddywpb · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2004, 11:01:40 PM »

I have never had any trouble with Powerbelts either on the range or in the field. I agree with Sabotloader. People either love 'em, or they hate 'em. The 295's seem to shoot the best in my Omega. I always check to make sure the bullet is still on the powder after I get set up in a stand, but I've never had one move on me before. Yep, I love 'em.

RAY · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2004, 10:24:00 AM »

I just sighted in my Encore 209X.45 last week and shot a 1 inch group at 100 yards with 225 grain PB bullets. Mine fit tight on the first clean load. I couldn't imagine one falling out. I've never owned a Knight rifle, don't know much about them.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2004, 10:57:15 AM »

My guess is that someone had the plastic gas check separate from the bullet allowing the bullet itself to run down the bore. Since the bullet is underbore size, in a clean bore it could very well fall out of the barrel once detached from the gas check. Or worse yet, be in the bore but not on the powder!

toytruck · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2004, 01:00:05 PM »

Harvester has a new belted bullet out called the "Sabertooth" it comes in 250,300, and 350 grain in 50 caliber. My Encore shoots them into a 1.5 inch group at 100 yds. They load easy, are accurate and have the gas check but it actually is a short sabot. They also are half the price of the powerbelts. I got them at midsouth shooters supply.

I killed a small buck yesterday at 75 yds.using the 300 grain sabertooth. Bullet passed through both sides and took out both lungs, deer just rolled and died quick. :grin:

rebAL · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2004, 09:22:25 AM »

I noticed that Knight no longer markets the powerbelt in the Knight packaging and inquired why. I was informed by company rep. that it was discontinued. If I can remember the reason I think it was due to unreliability and accuracy. They still reccommend sabots. I also inquired about my actual T-Bolt bore and was informed .500"-.502". I believe this is why they do not reccommend conicals- Fear of slippage & lawsuit. Personally I find the slightly oversized (.503") White Powerpunch & No Excuse conicals to fit & shoot just right.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2004, 11:12:02 AM »

Quote from: rebAL

I noticed that Knight no longer markets the powerbelt in the Knight packaging and inquired why. I was informed by company rep. that it was discontinued. If I can remember the reason I think it was due to unreliability and accuracy. They still reccommend sabots. I also inquired about my actual T-Bolt bore and was informed .500"-.502". I believe this is why they do not reccommend conicals- Fear of slippage & lawsuit. Personally I find the slightly oversized (.503") White Powerpunch & No Excuse conicals to fit & shoot just right.

Hmm, I did an internet search and found many, many happy knight/powerbelt shooters. I found one post that indicated that the bore of that particular knight rifle measured .504. If that's the case, maybe it's a knight problem related to certain knight rifles.

I shoot the 275gr hollow point powerbelts in a TC black diamond super xr .45 and in a CVA Staghorn .45 with 120grs of FF T7. I also have shot or shoot both the 295gr and 348gr lead hollow points in 2 different TC black diamond XR .50 rifles, using 120gr FF T7. All shoot less than 2" with the Williams WGRS rear aperture sight. I have shot the 405gr lead hollow points w/100gr FF T7 also, although groups were not quite as small, but that could have been my fault, they do have some serious recoil in that light TC. All shooting done at 100yds.

slowfog · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:54:20 PM »

Having grown up in Centerville, IA I know people who work at the plant. They have told me rather candidly that there are two seperate problems with Power Belts. First, they have had bullets seperate from the gas checks and the bullets unknowingly fall out. Needless to say they had some pretty angry customers. The second problem involved penetration at certain yardages and powder chargers. The problem was brought to the attention by a customer and after investigating found that he wasn't kidding. The numerous reports as well as testing was enough to make many believers. From there standpoint I don't blame them for recommending sabots. I have never heard of one falling out and I have personally never had a problem with expansion nor penetration. If you happento like them great. But I can't see firing a fouling shot on a gun that I can use a sabot on a clean barrel and shoot a Bullseye at 100 yds. If I don't fire it I just wipe it down, de-prime it and use it tomorrow.

josie wales · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2004, 02:04:24 AM »

My son and I both use PowerBelt bullets (.54 cal. 348 gr. hollowpoints). My son uses a Firehawk by Thompson Center and I use a Remington MLS.
As a old muzzleloader hunter brought up on round balls and patching with tight fits I was unsure when I tried PowerBelts for the first time. The pictures of guns blown up because of loads not seated on the powder caused me great consern. Tuesday my son was complaining he heard somthing sliding down his barrel ( it was very cold around 10 degrees), I took his gun a shook it and out drops the Powerbelt. He has used this combition for a few years and nothing like this happened before. That was enough for me, the next day I switched to 505 grain Hydra Cons which shoot right on with PowerBelts at 75 yards. He did not want to change his combination in the middle of our season so I loaded a PowerBelt with Thompson Center bore butter on it. I still worry but two days of hunting with this no movement was detected. My days of PowerBelts are over, they load great and are very accurate but i believe most hunters would do as well with Hydra Cons or Great Plains which will not slide down the barrel. When that 10 pointer comes around we all want to think about the shot not if the barrel is going to blow up.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2004, 06:17:45 AM »

Welcome to GBO!

I've been hunting with PBs for 2 seasons now and have not had a problem with them, but am aware that if the bullet separates from the gas check, there could be a problem. I just check it occaisonally and have never found that it moves in any of my guns. Perhaps the cold weather has something to do with it or the loading technique. They work well for me, my family and friends, no one will be switching anytime soon.

THE CHIEF · « **Reply #21 on:** December 29, 2004, 12:05:09 PM »

hi there, i'm a new member,i have a mdm millenium 50cal "buck wacka" it is a great gun, my 1st try and shot was at 25yards with a 295 gr power belt aerotip....nothing but hollow air came out i quickly reloaded as the little buck stared at me while i amused him with some grunting and quickly nailed him with the 2nd shot, i later foun the sabot sitting on top of the snow...it had separated from the green plastic...2yrs later i am now hooked on the shock wave sabots 295gr...they shoot real sweet at 25,50,75,100,150yrds....i have not tried 200yrds yet.....i was furious to find out that the power belts are nothing but @#%^@!....and that i have spent so many hours at a stand counting on those bullets...i think that the problem may be that here in quebec when the weather gets cold the metal will contract and thus fall out of the green plastic gas retainer.....a word to all don't chance your hours on the stand to something that just ain't 100%....

Doc T · « **Reply #22 on:** December 31, 2004, 05:14:56 AM »

My experience with them is that they shoot better in guns with a slower twist. My gun dealer told me the same thing. They shoot very well in my T/C Hawken and Renegade with a 1 in 48 twist. They don't shoot worth a hoot in my White Mountain Carbine which has a 1 in 20 twist. They also fit snug enough so that they won't move. Those thee rifles seem to have a little tighter bore than other brands although I have never measured it. I do know that I can't shoot sabots in them. They shoot fine but the bore is so tight I almost have to drive them in by tapping (heavily) the ramrod.