Author Topic: Sons .243 help!!! recoil on New England Firearm (Read 1518 times)

whos your daddy · « **on:** December 26, 2004, 04:46:24 PM »

Bought my 8 yr old a New England Firearm .243 for christmas and went to the gun club today. he shot 3 times and said he had it. it is the handi rifle .243 with the plastic butt. Someone at the club recommended the sims recoil pad. so I took off the factory recoil pad and found the butt to be completely hollow. Is there anything that can be added to this hollow area to reduce recoil?
Can I add the Sims recoil pad to the existing butt. I am using the remington .243 core lok bullet. Do not want him to get turned off shooting his gun
any advise?
thanks

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2004, 04:53:40 PM »

Of course it will make it heavier, but fill the stock with shot. But I might suggest you are a bit premature with that caliber and your son. My 9 year old shot my Handi .243 and it was a bit stiff for him. It was a youth barrel put on my regular receiver, so the gun was light. I don't think it would be that bad were it a heavy barrel. But my son's big for his age. My 11 year old daughter said the same thing. I think they might get used to it, but for now I won't push them. Thos are my thoughts. Merry Christmas

Paul5388 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2004, 05:35:35 PM »

The simple solution is to wait until he grows a little more.

OTOH, you could load some reduced loads using 16.0 gr Blue Dot with a 100 gr Rem Core-Loc and a standard primer for somewhere around 2000 fps. I use that load with my 13 year old grandaughter, who doesn't like much more than .223 recoil.

Well, I forgot that some people have trouble stabilizing the 100 gr bullets, so just substitute a 90 gr or 85 gr with the same amount of powder.

Donaldo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2004, 06:19:13 PM »

Just my 2 cents here..... but I think you may be a bit early on this one. An 8 year old, unless he is really big for his age is a bit light weight for a 243. In a light rifle they have a rather quick and sharp recoil, and a lot of noise. This can be as much of a problem as the recoil. Be sure he has adequate ear protection. I would recommend ear plugs and muffs, together. Then load the hollow stock with lead shot, the more the better. If you handload, put together some recommended "reduced recoil" loads. Make it fun to shoot first, then get him used to the noise and recoil. If he hasn't done any shooting, I would start him out on a 22 rimfire first. You got to make it fun for him. Good luck on this one.

handirifle · « **Reply #4 on:** December 26, 2004, 08:27:25 PM »

daddy
One other idea, not mentioned yet is to get the wood stocks. Add a little weight that way.

If you hand load, try using starting loads of 85gr bullets (using 85gr bullets of course). Lighter bullet, lower charge plus wood stock might do it.

Otherwise, get a 30-30 and load it with 130gr bullets. Should be far less recoil.

Sourdough · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2004, 08:39:07 PM »

Something else that most people overlook. An 8yr old is too small for a standard youth stock, even a large 8 year old. Their length of pull is only about 9 to 10 inches, a standard youth stock is 12". A recoil pad is only going to make it worse. When the stock is too long they can't hold it properly to handle the recoil. My son, (who is small for his age) was shooting a .243 at 9, but I cut the stock down to an unbelievable lenght, just for him. Now at 16, he still uses a youth stock, on his 30-06, 45-70, and .338 Win Mag. Recoil is not a problem for him with the proper stock. He also uses a youth stock on all his shotguns. For my wife I take a youth stock and cut an inch off then reinstall the recoil pad. My wife has an 11 inch lenght of pull.

Airsporter · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2004, 10:07:52 PM »

Hopefully you have the synthetic youth model with the shorter buttstock.

I suggest doing what the factory does with the heavier kicking calibers. Just wedge a piece of 1/2" or 5/8" steel bar stock in the hollow area using some packing foam or duct tape.

Lead shot will also work fine (if you have a source) but the steel bar is a lot easier find and you only need a pound or so. Almost every hardware and/or home center sells it. My synthetic stock .270 originally came with a 14 oz. steel bar in the buttstock.

lik2hunt · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2004, 12:02:03 AM »

What Airsporter said. :agree: I've seen the inside of the synthetic stocks and to try to fill one with even large sized shot would add way too much weight to it. In place of the steel bar, and if you have shot on hand, you might try putting the proper amount into a ziplock bag and wedging that proportionately into place inside the stock. The trimming of the stock to match your youngster's LOP and the ear protection are also good ideas. I imagine you have the Superlight with open sights so just keep the loads light and at short distances and he should find a lot of enjoyment in that.

whos your daddy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2004, 02:19:03 AM »

This is all great ideas.
I will try adding weight to the synthetic stock and find someone to help me reload his ammo.
He has been shooting with a .22 and loves it.
Would it be worth buying the sims recoil pad?
Great advise, thanks a whole lot.
Paul

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:03:24 AM »

I think the .243 with factory ammo is to much gun (recoil) for a average 8 year old. If you can, put on a ;laminated short stock (shorter than a youth stock for him if the youth is to long,for jim, which it probably is. Laminated stocks are the heaviest, if no laminateds are available to gut down gut down a regular wood buttstock and add some weight to the stock bolt hole before putting the recoil pad back on. The Sims recoil pad on a laminated or wood is a good idea, adding one to a plastic stock is also good but I don't think it will help you son much since the stock is so light to begin with. If you get an old wood buttstock, remove the recoil pad or burr plate, drill 2 long holes into the stock from the rear, the part that goes against your shoulder, these holes should be either 1/4 or 3/8 " in diameter and at least 1 inch longer than the amount you are going to cut off, then gut off the proper amount using a chop saw or table saw holding the stock in the proper position with blocks or shims so you do not have to sand away a lot of material on the stock, then add the proper recoil pad to bring the completed stock length of pull to where you want it. Now you are all set to lengthen the stock easily and neatly as your child grows. When he needs an inch more or so of stock length just cut is from the piece you cut off and glue it back on the butt with proper diameter wooden dowels in the holes, the stock will line up perfectly!!, add the recoil pad to the no longer stock and your good to go until you have to add another amount...Goos Luck. Try to use an older wooden non-laminated stock for this if you can, they are a bit easier to work but its not really necessary, just don't use a Camo Laminated stock please!!! Trade it to me for any stock you want, I need one!!! Thanks....<><.... :grin:

stuffit · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:10:49 AM »

I'd definitely get the recoil pad. I like the LimbSaver pads though the Sims may be just as good. On my .45-70 BC, I used a copper pipe that I poured full of lead in the stock bolt hole. I'd think, if you wanted to contain the stock weight to a volume less than the total of the hollow buttstock, you could do something similar and use some kind of filler around it after putting it into the stock (like styrofoam peanuts, wood chips, cotton balls, or maybe just cloth strips) to "pack" the weight in place. All the recommendations are good. There's always the .223 barrel too.

I recently got one of the mercury recoil reducer for my BC but haven't installed it yet, waiting til I finish the new stock I got for it. I've read good posts on it, however. Good luck in facilitating your son's shooting experiences and making them good ones.
:wink:
stuffit

ajj · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:19:29 AM »

Don't overlook that point about the noise. The eyes and ears don't like muzzle blast and perceive it as recoil. The Blue Dot loads will help a lot there. 'Til then, heavy on the ear protection.

86chief · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:00:59 AM »

You can use the expanding foam in a can sold at all hardware, Walmart, Home Depot stores as a filler. I have it in a synthetic stock on a Ruger 22/250 mostly to quieten down the hollow polymer sound and it works very nicely. Hope this might be of help.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:17:41 AM »

My grandson had the same feelings towards his 243 youth handi. When he was 8 he shot his new rifle just a few times and said he didn't want to shoot it anymore, "it hurt". I didn't push the matter and we went to a 22 lr. Although I was hoping for a new hunting buddy that year he showed no interest in deer hunting, since the gun kicked him too much. In the meantime I put a Sims pad on the gun (yes I had to cut the stock quite a bit). I added about a pound to the hole in the stock. One day in the Spring we were at the range and I was shooting from a set of shooting sticks instead of the bench. He asked if he could try the 243 from the sticks. He fired a shot and got this big smile on his face :grin: . And he has been shooting his 243 ever since. (6 deer in 3 years). I don't know which helped the most but the combination of the sims and the sticks allowed him to shoot in comfort. Trying to shoot from a bench was just too hard for him at that age. (still is). btw We use 100 gr. core-locts.

Airsporter · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:04:13 AM »

A caution for those who consider shortening the length of pull (LOP) on factory stocks by cutting them down - as you reduce the LOP you reduce the surface area (size) of the recoil pad/buttplate. This is due to the stock taper and the angle on the bottom of the stock. It increases felt recoil by concentrating it into a smaller area on the shoulder! Cutting below 12" results in a real "munchkin" pad.

Also, don't forget to consider the saw blade width. If you cut a piece off, it will not match back up perfectly - as you have "lost" 1/8" - 3/16" of 'tapered' material.

One of the sweetest shooters I have is a lightweight Rem. Model 7 in .308 Win. Finally figured out why - it came factory equipped with a shotgun size pad.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:10:10 AM »

Something else to consider is the Sims Limbsaver grind to fit recoil pads have a farily good size "footprint" and it is possible to taper the cushion part of the recoil pad from full size to the base of the pad at the mounting surface. I did this on my .45-70 pad and it worked great. The small Sims limbsaver will fit the handis.

http://www.limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/grind2fit.aspx

Lone Star · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2004, 12:57:31 PM »

You may not have to reload at all, just choose more appropriate ammo. The 55-grain varmint ammo kicks less than the 70 to 100 grain stuff, and depending on the barrel length it may make less noise too. By all means invest in a GOOD set of ear muffs AND plugs. Don't "torture" the kid, make life easier for him and you'll both have more fun.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2004, 01:00:28 PM »

Well I am glad to find out that when you cut a stock down the removed piece cannot be reattached when your child grows into it because it won't fit, Thanks...

Now I just have to tell those 3 or 4 stocks I have done it to that they are not supposed to be together again, I hope they don't take it to badly, because they looked pretty good when put back together and glued with the dowels holding them in perfect alignment...

I may not be able to trace them all down though, all except one have gone on in trades or been sold to others who seemed to be happy with them...

by the way, if you are worried about the sawblade or kerf thickness you might try using a bandsaw, although it is not neccessary...and by the way where are you getting that 3/16" thick saw blade? What a monster!!! Thats only 1/16" less than a quarter of an inch!!!
I have a small limb trimming chain saw that uses a 3/16" chain!!!

Happy new year....<><.... :roll:

And by the way, remember that those "munchkin" sized pads are going onto "munchkin" sized shoulders!!!

whos your daddy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2004, 02:56:30 PM »

Thanks for the additional info. Very informative.
I'll work on the butt.
He is wearing ear plugs and headphones we bought at a NHRA race.
Is this OK for shooting?
thanks again
Paul

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2004, 03:47:53 PM »

The plugs and muffs should be fine, don't forget shooting glasses or safety glasses to protect his precious eyes, even if there are no "incidents" these Handi's throw a shell out with force, you don't want him to get hit in the eye with one. Also he might as well learn the proper and safe way to shoot at the range when he is young. Have fun and be safe, enjoy the time with your son, they grow up to soon.....<><.... :grin:

5 handi's + · « **Reply #20 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:05:38 PM »

WYD,
I went down the same path. I bought my very small 11 year old son a new handi for CHRISTmas but I had been thru this before with a 308 mauser for my oldest son. cuting down the stock made it a hand ful for any shoter as the surface area was reduced. I looked into light loads and found 2 powders that work realy good in a 308 and a 30/06 handi so when the 243 came along .
Naturaly simalar case I reserched the powders I had on hand and found that sr 4759 and H4895 would be just teh ticket. 55 grain bullets at a leasurly 1800- 2200 ft/sc makes a nice pop gun the recoil feels to me like a22 mag and the report is very mild . a word of caution . it is better to work down in small increments the same way as you would work up .90 grn speer soft point with sr 4759 at 22 grains was real nice . USE AT YOUR OWN RISK !! this load worked out to 2100 ft /sec and is minimum IMHO for close range deer. My son weighs about 60 pounds and is very small for his age. he realy enjoyed the new blaster and shot very well . at 25 yards the group was about 1/2 " I was the proudest papa at the range as his and my smiles could atest.
Good luck Johnnie

whos your daddy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:23:00 PM »

Sounds like the ticket-
I looked up the powder you reccomended, it looks like you reload. I have not looked into this option and do not have the equipment to reload. Do you know where these bullets can be purchased? thanks again.

Airsporter · « **Reply #22 on:** December 27, 2004, 09:41:21 PM »

MSP, I never said "the removed piece cannot be reattached." I said it would not match perfectly. Speaking of woodworking, I think there's a chip on someone's shoulder.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2004, 07:33:55 AM »

I used some PVC piping some wedges of wood and a mercury recoil supressor, It really tamed mine down. If its bothering him right now, Do not let him shoot any of hornadys light magnums those things are intense.I do hand load and I use some hornady 100gr RN and they shoot very well without near the recoil as some of the factory 100 grainers.

jspirko · « **Reply #24 on:** December 29, 2004, 07:35:17 AM »

Let me chime in because I did the same thing to my boy at 12 and it was a mistake. My boy is small for his age but at 12 he was definitely still bigger then the average 8 year old for sure.

I was so sure of myself bought a 243 and 20 gauge youth combo for him. He fired two shots and had tears in his eyes but would not quit. I thought he was over reacting and in my non patient way grabed the gun and put a round through myself. Upon feeling the recoil I at once felt like a walking piece of crap. Those small youth stocks with strait grip suck for recoil and I have to say it had more felt recoil then my 30-06 NEF.

I put it away and apologized to him. I have shot many 243s and all were very mild but that youth configuration NEF is just brutal. I am sure with a full sized stock it would be fine but with the kiddo stocks UHHHH!

This was a big mistake and the boy still (now 15) won't shoot it. He is a crack shot with a 20 gauge pump and the recoil is more I am sure (with the new full sized stock).

What followed was I bought him a 410 to learn to wing shoot and ordered a 357 mag barrel he has taken two deer with. My buddies tell me push him now to shoot the 243 but I quickly tell them hey it was my mistake and told one butthead "dude in two years he put two more deer in the freezer then you have with what you call his kiddie gun".

Right now I think if you call you can get 357 barrels. You could also consider the 44 and shoot specials for a bit. If no game is to be taken a 223 is a great learning round along with a 22 hornet. I promise you a 30-30 will kick less then a 243 as well and with a cheap lee loader you can load mild 30-30s that kick like a 223 and still will put a deer down.

I have still not forgiven myself for giving the boy fear of that gun. I would like to see NEF either make a kids pistol grip stock or stop selling it as a "youth gun".

The youth NEF 243 is just not a good gun for kids anyone big enough to handle it well would be using a full sized stock. Then should make the youth in 223 22 hornet, 357 and perhaps 44 mag with a note to dads and moms to shoot specials in the 44 with kiddos.

When all else fails just teach with a 22 that is best anyway,

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #25 on:** December 29, 2004, 01:33:20 PM »

jspirko I guess that "combo" stock is brutal. But not all 243 youth models have that type stock. Maybe you should restock a great gun and give it another try.

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #26 on:** December 29, 2004, 02:53:10 PM »

Good shooting is more brain than body. Often recoil is more perceived than real. If someone thinks a gun kicks, then it kicks. The habits we develop, both good and bad, stay with us. Exposing young shooters to more gun than they are able to handle can lead to serious flinching. I've watched young shooters who carefully aim a rifle and then lift their head off the stock as they pull the trigger. They have convinced themselves that its going to hurt so they subconsciously react, and ruin the shot. Start them with a .22LR and let them develop good habits. Bring them along slowly, at their pace, not yours. This is supposed to be fun, no heroics required.

My $.02 worth.

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** December 29, 2004, 07:01:17 PM »

Quote

Good shooting is more brain than body

Well said. I went into the Army at age 19, in 1972. In basic I was introduced to the M-16A1. I hated that rifle as soon as I started shooting it. Why, no recoil at all, but I am a lefty and those hot spent rounds went right down my shirt. Man did that cause me to think about something OTHER than the target when I pulled the trigger.

The geniuses figured it out in the A2 model but I never saw it.

I have hunted since I was 8 and had NO problem killing squirrels with my 22LR out to 50yds prior to the Army, but I only ranked Sharpshooter in the Army cause I couldn't get the fear of hot brass out of my head. By the way, their fix was for me to button my collar. In Fort Knox Kentucky, hot an muggy, collar buttoned all the way up and now the brass sits between my collar and my neck.

Yea, good shooting is VERY much mental.