Big Bore "Hammer of Thor"!

[Jerry/PA]

Hi fellows,

I've harvested two deer this year with the "new-used" 444 that I bought last Spring.

I'm amazed at the "Hammer of Thor" knock-down performance that I've just witnessed.

I need to explain that for about 20 years of my life I hunted with a 30-06.  It would certainly harvest them cleanly, but unless I hit the central nervous system, or wasted a front shoulder, they would usually run a good ways.  

Then after a neck-injury from a car accident, I had to stay away from recoil.  I sold the 30-06 and bought a 243.  Yes, if the shots are placed, the 243 is a fine harvester of deer also.  But, again, unless a CNS hit was made, they would run.

The two deer that I just harvested with the 444 were quite another story.  One was a mid neck frontal shot that completely missed the spine, and the other was just a  mid-lung shot.  One about 60 yards, and one about 75 yards.  Both deer just "crumpled".  From my lifetime of experience, both of these deer "should have" run a ways.  

I've read several fellows to remark on this forum that this often happens with the big bores, and I'm sure it won't always happen that way, but it sure was amazing to see it firsthand twice in a row!  My immediate thought when they went straight down was "Wow, so that's what the fellows meant when they said the "Hammer of Thor"!

I'm sure I'm not telling you fellows anything that you don't already know, but I'm just so amazed that I had to say it again.

Then there was my buddy who shot his buck with his 7MM Mag exactly center of the chest, directly frontal.  You know, above the heart and kinda between the lungs.  And he watched it run and run and run.  Down into the greenbriars where it took hours and hours and hours to drag it out.  (He was so cut up from the briars that he almost "bled out"!)

Wow, the "Hammer of Thor"!

Regards, and safe hunting to all,

Jerry.

[handirifle]

Jerry,
Wonder what the max effective range of the 444 is on deer and elk?

What bullets are loaded for the 444 in factory now?

[clodbuster]

Jerry  My 444 gives me all the fun I can handle in just a few shots from the bench.  The recoil is very similar to my 7mm.  Can't image that the "06 and 444 are much different.  I'm loading 275 cast  over IMR 4198.
The whack on the receiving is pretty powerful.  If you can accurately place the shot and judge the range, guess 200 to 250 yds would be doable.  That big flatnosed bullet just keeps chugging on through.

[Marlin444]

This past season, I shot a doe through the top of the shoulders around 40yrds.I was using a hornady 265 gr. hand load at 2350 fps. At the shot she dropped & never moved.This is the 2nd deer I've taken with the .444,I'm really impressed with it.

[Mikey]

Fellas, the 'Hammer of Thor' is an apt description.  This year I used my 444, loaded with 300 gn hardcast and then 330 grain hardcast to take an 800 lb cow elk and a 400 lb Russian Boar.  No contest.  The 444 is my favorite.  Mikey.

[Jerry/PA]

Hi Clodbuster;

Jerry  My 444 gives me all the fun I can handle in just a few shots from the bench."

You're right!  It isn't really much fun to do very much "bench work" with the 444.  However, when shooting offhand from a standing position, the upper body moves more easily than when I'm all planted at the bench, so the recoil doesn't hurt much.

"....Can't image that the "06 and 444 are much different...."

Again, I think you're right!  Thankfully, my neck injury seems to have healed up enough that I can again tolerate a fair amount of recoil.  I wouldn't push my luck and fire off 20 rounds from the bench, but I can get away with a half dozen.

"...I'm loading 275 cast  over IMR 4198..."

Would you be willing to share the load that works the most accurately in your rifle?  Is it a 444S or the shorter rifle?

"....The whack on the receiving is pretty powerful...."

Yes, "The Hammer of Thor"!  This farm-boy ain't never seen nothing like it!

Regards,

Jerry.

[Jerry/PA]

Hi Handirifle;

Jerry,
Wonder what the max effective range of the 444 is on deer and elk?

What bullets are loaded for the 444 in factory now?

I'm just beginning to learn my "new-used" rifle myself, so I'm afraid that I can't help you out about it's effective range or the available factory  loadings.

I reload myself and I used a Hornady 265 grain bullet, which seems to be one of the most popular choices with the 444, going by comments that I've read by fellows here.   I used H335 as a powder, mostly because I happened to have some on hand.  I was able to shoot a 3/4", 3 shot group, benchrested with H335, so maybe it ain't so bad!

Lots of fellows seem to comment on using 4198 as their powder... maybe next can I'll buy some?

I think you can get more velocity with 4198, but I'm not sure so don't quote me on it.  Anyway, with the local 75 to 150 pound Whitetail Deer, and the typical under-100 yard shots I'm offered, I don't need any more velocity, power, or accuracy.

Again, I'm just awed that the deer both crumpled and fell where they stood.  Wow!

Hammer of Thor!

Regards,

Jerry.

[leverfan]

What bullets are loaded for the 444 in factory now?

I'm sure that I'm missing a bunch, but here's a few:

Buffalo Bore:270 grain JFP, 335 grain LFN-GC

Remington: 240 grain JSP

Hornady: 265 grain JFP

Corbon: 280 grain BCSP, 305 grain FPPN

Georgia Arms: 270 grain SP, 300 grain SP

Anyway, if someone tells you that you can't get a decent supply of 444 without handloading these days, they're full of tartar sauce.  The ammo is expensive, but it's nothing compared to the cost of the rest of a hunt.

[handirifle]

Thanks guys

[adirondacker]

to acheive the highest velocity in a 444 h-335 is probably tthe best powder to use.i have had exceptional luck combining 55 grns of the h-335 powder and a hornady 300 grn. xtp.out of a marlin outfitter i am getting right around 1975 fps at the muzzle.the h-335 is a ball powder that meters extremely well.i haven't killed as many deer with the 444 as i have with the 44 mag but i use that xtp bullet in both.since it is a handgun bullet it will start to expand at velocities around 900 fps,so at 1900 or so it is quite devastating.i have shot good sized deer{150 lb dressed range] with quartering shots and had the bullet pass completely through.haven't recovered an expanded bullet yet.i'll bet on hogs this thing would be wicked.merry christmas,shoot straight,shawn

[handirifle]

Do they make any jacketed bullets for the 444 and not just pistol bullets?

[adirondacker]

those xtp's are jacketed,i have had excellent luck with them.hornady makes them,i use the 240 grn in 44 mag rifle and handgun and 300 grn in the 444 rifle.just picked up some to develop a load in my 40 s&w.they are a hollow point bullet with a segmented jacket.great expansion and weight retention,at least thats the info i've read.i have never recovered one in an animal.
 i know they make a flat nose jacketed bullet for .430 dia as well,that's what most factory ammo is,due to the lever action use of it.the xtp's feed and function with no problem thru anything i've fired them out of.i just checked, the .430 dia xtp's start at 180 grn and go to 300 grn.check out hornady's sight for more info.www.hornady.com.hope this helps,shawn

[Mikey]

Fellas:  Beartooth Bullets at www.Beartoothbullets.com makes all the cast, gas-checked bullets you would ever want to use in the 444 and has all the load data that was developed for each bullet.  I find in my 18.5" Timber Carbine and my 20" Traditional Rifle that I can group under one inch at 100 yds with some very heavy hitting loads that plow on through.  

Lemme put it this way - when I bammed that 400 lb Russian Boar I got this fall, it was with a 300 grn cast, gas checked slug at right around 2300'/sec (by the load data from a 20" Marlin).  This hog was a mean sob who had treed a couple of guys, charged other animals and was givin' me a baleful eye wondering when he couold get at me.  The slug hit him just behind the neck on the left side and exited the right shoulder.  The buthcer told me I had lost about 4 lbs of meat with that shoulder shot but the bullet exited clean - he said he likes cast bullets, they do that and you don't waste a lot of meat.  Anywho, this critter got knocked over by the impact and rolled.  It was no contest.  A 44 mag (same bullet weight) to the brainpan ended it all and he made the best tastin' sausage I've ever had.  I like my 444s.  Mikey.

[handirifle]

Are the XTP's suitabe for deer, bear and elk?

If you had to choose between a 30-06 and 444, for all your hunting, which would it be?  And at what ranges would you expect from each?

[Mikey]

handirifle:  for all but the whitetail I would prefer a heavy, hard cast gas-checked bullet.  I'm afraid those xtps might open up too soon on the bear and elk.  Mikey.

[handirifle]

Mikey
Thanks, I guess that rules out getting a button rifled model.  I assume the Ballard style is better for case bullets?

[leverfan]

handirifle-

The bunk about microgroove barrels not shooting cast bullets well simply isn't true, at least not in my experience.  None of the microgroove 444 owners that I know of have had problems shooting cast bullets.  It's like the stories about the 38" twist not working for bullets over 265 grains in the 444.  Gun writers assumed this stuff about twist rate and riflling style, before they ever tested it.  The stories get spread around, folks think the stories are true, and people give up trying different things.

In my experience, I've had no problem lobbing 300 grain and heavier slugs, and I've had no problem at all with cast bullets, and my barrel has 38" twist microgroove.  If you get a good buy on such a rifle, don't let the old wives' tales spread by gun writers scare you away.  

Keep your velocities up with the heavy bullets, and keep your cast bullets over 15 BHN, make sure those cast bullets are at least .430", and you'll probably be satisfied.

[handirifle]

Leverfan
Thanks, cause I never had any good results with my BC and cast bullets.  It too is microgroove.

If I pushed cast bullets over 1400fps they keyholed at 50yds.

[leverfan]

Leverfan
Thanks, cause I never had any good results with my BC and cast bullets.  It too is microgroove.

If I pushed cast bullets over 1400fps they keyholed at 50yds.

YOINKS!  That is disappointing performance.  I know that some 444 users have gone as large as .432", and 20+ BHN, but I don't know any that couldn't reach an acceptable level of accuracy and stability.  I've never fired a round that traveled under 1650 fps from my 444, and I've never had any bullet related problems (I've had shooter related problems, scope related problems, etc., etc...... ).

[Mikey]

handirifle - go to the Beartooth Bullets website and all your questions will be answered.

The 444 is a great caliber and will shoot cast bullets, at jacketed bullet speeds, and very accurately.  The 1:38 twist microgroove barrels will shoot those bullets better than you can imagine but you have to have the right bullets to do that.  For jacketed bullet velocity and accuracy you need gas-checked slugs.  Some plain based slugs will shoot well at lower speeds but the gas-checked slugs are the best ones of all and Beartooth has an incredible inventory or those.  If you read Marshall Stanton's (Beartooth Bullets) writings on the 444 and follow the load data you will be amazed at the 444.  You may have to firelap your barrel but that is fun to do - at least it was for me, and really helps you know your rifle.  

I used two 444s for a recent hunt - a 20" 1:38 microgroove bbl and a 26" 1:26 twist ballard type rifled barrel - got under 1 moa at 100 with each using different loads.  From the short rifle I used a 300 gn Bearooth gas-checked slug at 2300'/sec - shot right through the shoulders of a 400 lb Russian Boar  - from the long rifle I used a 330 gn gas-check at almost 2300'/sec, or more from the longer barrel, on a 700+ lb Cow Elk at 100 yds and there was no contest.  Yummy!  HTH.  Mikey.

[whelen36]

would any of those 270 , 280 or 300 grain loadings from buffalo bore , cor-bon or georgia arms be safe for use in a model 94 winchester big bore ( made and discontinued just a couple of years ago , late 90's ) ?  :grin:


if they are safe , could you please give the web addresses for those sites  :grin:

[CEJ1895]

Not to make any waves here with you triple 4 lover's (good cartridge) but "Thor's Hammer" is the name of my 1985GG in 45-70...  :-D CEJ...

[Lone Star]

Both cartridges have similar effect on deer-sized game IME.  The reason?  The large metplat area transfers "shock" as soon as it hits.  Smaller, faster bullets must expand to reach the same diameter, and this happens several inches into the animal.  The initial "slap" is what appears to make the difference.  I've shot a bunch of deer, a few caribou and moose with the .45-70 and have seen a handful killed with the .444; the .45-70 seemed to be a tiny bit more effective, but that may have been due to the small sample size or the particular loads used.  

Both cartridges are highly effective - but IMO they perform better with appropriate jacketed bullets even though cast do kill well.  In the .444 this means 300 Sierras, 265 Hornadys or 250 Noslers.  XTPs are really too soft.

[Graybeard]

http://www.buffalobore.com/

http://www.cor-bon.com//