Author Topic: Winchester 94 or Marlin 336? (Read 2580 times)

MGMorden · « **on:** September 22, 2004, 06:21:45 AM »

I am in the market to buy a lever action as a gift and was just asking for some advice. Basically, my brother always hunts with either borrowed guns (if he's using a rifle), or takes out his shotgun with slugs. I figured I'd surprise him and get him a rifle for Christmas. Now, I'm primarily a bolt-action type guy, but he's really liked the lever .30-30's he's used, so I figured I'd get him one of those. Here's where the dilemma came in. Whatever he gets, he's gonna want to put a scope on, so I had figured that the Marlin 336 would be better since it has true side ejection instead of the angle-ejection of the Winchester (I personally like the way the Marlin looks too). However, I do know that the Marlin has micro-groove rifling. Now I had read somewhere (can't remember where, might have just been BS) that micro-groove rifling wears quickly and that a barrel like this would wear out after less than 1000 shots. Now, I don't think he'll be shooting it that many times, but I'd still like the leeway.

So basically, my question is, is there any truth to the bit about the barrel wearing quickly on the Marlin, and just generally are there any other pro's and con's when comparing them. Thanks.

HipShot · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2004, 06:45:39 AM »

The Marlin shouldn't be a problem as long as you make sure to clean it from the breech end, and use only jacketed bullets. The shallower "button" rifling can last a long while. It is easier to damage at the crown though. Hard cast bullets could be a problem.

As for me, I'm a Winchester 94 fan, but I have no problem with Marlin at all. It comes down to personal preference, really. I'm left handed, so I prefer a top eject Winnie. I don't care for scopes; I use peep or blade sights. With an MPBR of 235 yards, a scope isn't necessary for me. I don't recall taking a shot at greater than 150 yards anyway.

We're all different; if we were all the same, only one of us would be necessary.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2004, 07:32:23 AM »

I own both win's and marlin. Mounting a scope on the newer win's is not a problem at all. No differant than moutning on Marlin. The angle eject is not a problem with the scope.

Just my experiance. But I find the win 94 in 30-30 to be more accurate than the marlin 336 of same caliber. This is just what I have found. Dosent mean its accross the board.

Bullseye · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2004, 07:50:51 AM »

That is tough choice, I own both and cannot make up my mind which I like best. As stated before the 94 with angle eject should not be a problem with a scope. Other thoughts in my opinion:

- Win has better looking wood and finish on the wood.
- Marlins trigger is little better, the Win has a lot of free travel before starting to engage. Both can be nice with a trigger job, but the Win still has the free travel.
- Win is smoother cycling in my opinion
- Marlin ususally has a better metal to wood fit.

In my opinion they both have pros and cons. You just need to weigh what is the most important.

cam69conv · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2004, 05:16:46 AM »

Im in total love with my Marlin 336 in .444...Most accurate lever gun I have owned..My buddy has an old marlin and if memory serves me correct it was one of the first ones with the micro groove...I know for a fact he has put well over 3000 rounds through this rifle and it is still a tack driver at 100 yards..Now this was surprising to me as it will surely be to you also...I put a scope on mine..( sorry fellas the old eyes needed it ) and while sighting in I was holding 1/8 inch groups at 100 yards till the barrel started to get hot then it opened up to about 3/4 inch and up to 1 inch....But 1/8 inch groups on the first 4 shots to me was absolutely incredible...Was useing the Hornady 265 grain light mag loads...Lordy them things buck the hell outta ya compared to the 240 rem's...Almost got me a case of tha scope eye...Anyway I am VERY pleased with my marlin...Winnies have thier good points to but IMHO the marlins have them beat...Good luck and very nice thinking on your gift choice...Wish I had a brother like you..Im lucky to get a card from my sister

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** September 23, 2004, 05:31:21 AM »

MGMorden: With the new Wincehsters there is absolutely no problem mounting a scope or getting ejection clearance. I have a scope mounted 94 big bore and it is a dream.

As for the Marlin barrels wearing out in 1K rounds due to the microgroove - no such thing friend - those rifles will go ya thousands of rounds without any accuracy problems. In fact, more than one informed source will advise fire-lapping the bore (adding controlled wear) to enhance the accuracy. I have done that with two of my Big Bores in 444 (one with the Mrlin 12 groove, 1:38 twist) and the results are just what I wanted - two incredibly accurate lever actions in 444. And they can shoot the heavy bullets like its nobody else's business, either.

Two days ago I took a 400 pound Russian Boar and an 800 pound Cow Elk with my 444. The Boar was hit just behind the head on the left side and the bullet coursed straight through and out the right shoulder. I had to take the shot through a very small window as this guy was hunkered down behind a deadfall and other than jumping the SOB with a knife my only shot had to be pinpoint, and that it was. He got hit real hard and the shot rolled him right over - it was a no contest with that 444. The Elk was hit at 100 yds just as she turned and I felt it necessary to take a 2nd shot. The bullet coursed right through her and although she had her head down and was starting to falter, I put a 2nd one through her and that was all she wrote. The land owner said he had not seen such accurate or hard hitting shots from a lever gun before (and he has a collection of over 30 levers).

So MG, go for either the Winchester or the Marlin - you won't go wrong with either. And, BTW, that's a pretty special gift you would be giving, I hope he ejoys his lever as much as I enjoy mine. Mikey.

Uncle Ji · « **Reply #6 on:** September 23, 2004, 03:17:19 PM »

I own both, and love um both. The Winchester 94 AE Ranger 30/30 a best buy at $230 bucks if you look around. The Winchester IMHO has the more classic looking lines with it's straight grip butt stock, and trim fore stock. Mounting scope not a problem with newer 94AE models. Marlin has a clubbier (is that a word) stock with pistol grip butt stock, and bulbous fore stock. Micro-groove wearing faster a myth. Advantage of Marlin over Winchester IMHO is Marlin action smoother with one forward movement of lever whereas the Winchester has a 2 stage lever movement where it drops then moves forward, takes alittle more getting used to. Marlin also easier to maintain removing one screw to remove lever, and bolt for cleaning bore from breech end. This not recommended with Winchester which has a more complicated action to disassemble. In reality most clean both guns from muzzle, and as long as you protect the crown, muzzle cleaning not a problem. Accuracy is comperable. Winchester a tad lighter in weight. They are both quality guns. The Marlin looks better with a scope, the Winchester looks better without IMHO. Can't go wrong with either. My 2 cents

sgtt · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2004, 07:18:25 PM »

Any chance your family is looking for another member?

HipShot · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2004, 04:16:07 AM »

Do you plan on reloading? Do you intend to cast bullets? If you are going to reload with jackets, either will do. If you are going to cast your own, you'll probably want the Winnie. I'd love to hear from someone who has long term cast usage out of a micro groove. All I've read says "don't do it."

I'd love to be wrong; I wouldn't mind having a Marlin rechambered for AI and be able to use cast. The first thing I'd do is slap a 4x on it. The Marlins are rated to 52,000 CUP and the Winnies 44,000 CUP, IIRC. I'd deal with the side eject issue, (I may hafta keep my collar buttoned :lol: ).

In the meantime, I'll stick with my top eject and ORH sight.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2004, 04:49:34 AM »

MG:

Does it have to be a 30-30???...after all if he's used to shooting slugs...moving up the ladder will bring you to the 444 or 450...or 45-70...which I truely think are great guns...and I would go with the Marlin over the Winchester...personal preference of course... I have shot some amazingly accurate Marlins in the 30-30 so I wouldn't worry to much about the micro-groove barrels or wearing it out...and scoping them isn't any problem...one other thing...it's a great thing your doing for him as a Christmas gift...he's lucky to have you for a brother....

Mac

Gregory · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2004, 02:11:39 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700

MG:

Does it have to be a 30-30???...after all if he's used to shooting slugs...moving up the ladder will bring you to the 444 or 450...or 45-70...which I truely think are great guns...and I would go with the Marlin over the Winchester...personal preference of course... I have shot some amazingly accurate Marlins in the 30-30 so I wouldn't worry to much about the micro-groove barrels or wearing it out...and scoping them isn't any problem...one other thing...it's a great thing your doing for him as a Christmas gift...he's lucky to have you for a brother....

Mac

And the large bore Marlins can be purchased without the microgroove rifling.

snowdog · « **Reply #11 on:** September 26, 2004, 11:32:38 AM »

I have 2 winnies, and a marlin 336 A and an 1895 CB 45/70, Anyone
sho says the 336 wears out after 1000 shots, has no clue what he/she
is talking about, and should just eat more donuts. micro groove works
fine like any rifle.... clean it regulary and it will last to hand it over to the
next family member in line to use it. I prefer the winnie to the 336 only
cause it feels easier to carry, but the 336 is a great gun. more stronger
than a 94 action wise from what I've been told. And as Gregory pointed out... think about big bores also. load it for Deer, or Load them for
grizzlies the 45/70, is really versatile.

Good luck to ya.

MGMorden · « **Reply #12 on:** September 27, 2004, 12:19:54 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

MG:

Does it have to be a 30-30???...after all if he's used to shooting slugs...

Well, the slugs are part of the reason he borrows rifles :lol:. I've let him take out my .30-06 a number of times, and he's taken deer with it, but he's always taked about how he liked the .30-30 more because it didn't kick as bad as any of the other guns he'd shot, and he liked how small and light the guns were. To tell the truth I think a 6.5x55 would be great for his hunting (low recoil and it still could take the longer shots if necessary), but I've only found them in break and bolt actions, neither of which he particularly cares for.

As of right now I'm leaning towards the Marlin. I may handload for it (I do handload for other chamberings now, but don't know if I'll be investing in the dies etc unless I buy a .30-30 myself. It'd be far cheaper for my brother to shoot off the shelf). If I do though, it'll be jacketed bullets only.

CharlieinKansas · « **Reply #13 on:** September 27, 2004, 03:32:33 AM »

Marlin's are still made in the U.S.A., Winchester? are they still being made in Japan?

snowdog · « **Reply #14 on:** September 27, 2004, 05:20:12 AM »

I just bought my latest winn 94 AE this past March, says made in
New Haven Con. on the barrel.

Dr. A · « **Reply #15 on:** September 27, 2004, 09:39:16 AM »

You can't go wrong with either. I myself prefer the 336. This is why.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=11850

John Kort on the unscoped version of this competition did a .4 group at 50 yards. I can see why people want the Winchester. I think it is what ever you get used too. I incidentally have about 8000 rounds through one of my microgrooves. That .7 inch group gun is the one.

Buffalogun · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2004, 01:38:41 PM »

snowdog,

I like donuts!!! But...I only eat the donuts that have holes in them...less calories! Besides, I already look like the Michelin Man! :eek:

MG,

I've had both the 336 and 94 in 30-30. MY 336 shot groups of around 3"-4" @ 100 yds. and I sold it. My current lever 94 30-30 shoots 2"-3" groups @ 100 yds and it was built in 1965.

Hope this helps Brother :lol: ,
Buffalogun

cam69conv · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2004, 01:45:10 PM »

Quote from: Buffalogun

I've had both the 336 and 94 in 30-30. MY 336 shot groups of around 3"-4" @ 100 yds. and I sold it. My current lever 94 30-30 shoots 2"-3" groups @ 100 yds and it was built in 1965.

Hope this helps Brother :lol: ,
Buffalogun

Cam say musta been shooter cuzz him have seen several older micro with many shots fired through hold 1 inch groups at 100yrds...Him also have old 35 336 that holds half inch group at 100...Has wayyyy more than 4000 shots through it still shoot like dream...Cam say Buffalo need more practice

Gawd I like doin a Dalilama

Buffalogun · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2004, 03:17:25 PM »

Cam probably 101% right! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Buffalogun

SeaBass · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2004, 01:53:15 PM »

In 30-30 I would opt for the Winchester. I just like the look and feel better myself. I believe they are a bit lighter as well. As far as the action being weaker, in .30-30 it's really not that important to me. That being said I have an empty slot in my gun cabinet I'd like to fill with a marlin guide gun in 45-70! :wink:

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2004, 06:20:24 AM »

The micro groove stuff was probably made up by someone who couldn't shoot to hide his defecincey. I have thousands of cast round thru my Marlin and it still shoots like the day I bought it. It'll shoot 3" groups at a 100yrds off hand no problem and for a deer rifle in the woods that good enuff anyday. By the way Marlins usally resale higher moistly cuase of some bad barrels Winchester made in the late 70s early 80s.

Ron T. · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2004, 10:09:57 AM »

Why not think about a Savage Model 99 lever-action rifle? The Model 99 uses a rotary magazine and can shoot spitzer (pointed) bullets which have a much better ballistic coefficient than the blunt bullets required by most Marlins and Winchester 94's. Better ballistic coefficients mean higher retained bullet velocity. Most 99's are very accurate... it is commonplace for them to average 3-shot groups of LESS than one inch at 100 yards from the benchrest.

I use a 1953 Savage Model 99 (a late model EG) in .300 Savage for all my deer hunting and I don't think either the rifle or the caliber can be beat for deer out to 250 yards.

The .300 Savage cartridge, using 180 grain bullets, is easily capable of taking elk, moose and black bear at reasonable ranges (under 200 yards) while the use of 120 grain to 130 grain premium bullets turn the efficient .300 Savage into a great antelope rifle for long range shooting. The 150 grain bullet is an excellent choice for deer.

The Model 99 Savage rifle is a "classic" and handles like a dream. It's lever action is "butter-smooth" compared to most other lever actioned rifles. The Model 99 Savage is becoming a true American icon.

The .300 Savage, "father" of the .308 Winchester cartridge, is acknowledged by many experts as "THE" perfect deer cartridge because most hunting bullets offer outstanding performance at .300 Savage velocities while averaging 25%-30% less recoil than a .270 Winchester with equal weight bullets.

My hunting handload, consisting of a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet in front of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 rifle powder and a standard Winchester large rifle primer, chronographs at an average muzzle velocity of 2680 fps while giving an average of ¾ of an inch, 3-shot groups @ 100 yards off the bench rest with my Bushnell 3x-9x variable scope set on "9x".

It fired a 3-shot group of .112 inches @ 50 yards off a bench rest using sandbags and a rifle rest. Ive seen many other Model 99 owners claim ¾ inch accuracy at 100 yards from their Savage Model 99s as well and I have no reason to doubt them. The Savage Model 99 is undoubtedly one of the, if not THE, most accurate lever action rifle available anywhere.

Sighted in 2.75-inches high at 100 yards, the .300 Savage cartridge has a point blank range of 265 yards, meaning the bullet does not rise or fall more than 3 inches above or below the "line-of-sight" from the rifle's muzzle to 265 yards down-range which is a long shot for most hunters.

There's something to be said about hunting with a "classic" rifle in a "classic" caliber... and the Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage caliber offers its owner a reasonably light, fast-handling, truly "classic", but very useful rifle for all occasions in a very reasonable price range.

Something to consider...

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Old Griz · « **Reply #22 on:** November 02, 2004, 06:13:34 PM »

:cb2: My micro-groove .45-70 out shoots my Ballard cut .30-30, but then, so does my Ballard grooved 1894 in .357. (Actually, the .357 shoots best of all.) Still, I plan to get a Winchester 94 Legacy in .30-30 just because it looks so good, and just because it's a Winchester. I'll always remember that scene in the movie, "The Wind and the Lion," when the Raisuli (Sean Connery) asks Eden Pedecaris (Candice Bergen) what kind of rifle President Roosevelt used. She immediately straightened up with American pride and without hesitation said, "A Winchester!" Now I'll be real happy to settle for a .30-30. Have no need for Teddy's famous .405, but I bet even TR had a .30-30 or two stashed away somewhere!

leverfan · « **Reply #23 on:** November 03, 2004, 02:41:46 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz

Have no need for Teddy's famous .405, but I bet even TR had a .30-30 or two stashed away somewhere!

My memory might be failing me, it often does, but I believe TR had a 30-30 with a Maxim silencer on it. He used it for pest control, as the silencer kept it from bugging his neighbors. Teddy lived on Pennsylvania Avenue at the time.

ba_50 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2004, 10:50:51 AM »

I like the 94 because it balances better and is lighter. I still think the pre-64's are better made.

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2004, 10:59:34 AM »

I have two 94's and two Malins,Marlin is a better action and US Repeating Arms owns Winchester I believe.
S

Big Paulie · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2004, 08:06:27 AM »

My experience is that a very large number of Winchesters either have (or develop over time) a very annoying "rattle", where the lever seems to rattle loose and clatter against the action. The bugs the heck out of me and can be noisy when you are carrying it.l

In my experience, the Marlins always snap shut with a decisive click, and they stay shut and tight with no rattle, no matter how old.

Also, for a few years, Marlin made the Model 336-T, with a straight grip instead of a pistol grip stock. These look extremely classy and classic, and are now being snatched up by all of the cowboy shooters.

Just my experience.

Big Paulie.

MGMorden · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2004, 02:43:56 PM »

Well, just responding with an update (been a while

). I ended up getting the Winchester 94. I had decided on the Marlin, but I stopped in at a local pawn shop and they had a Win94 that looked virtually brand new. Perfect bluing, perfect wood, etc. It was one of the angle eject models and the guy wanted $200, so I went with that one. If I'd have bought brand new I'd have likely gotten the Marlin, but the 94 was hard to pass up at the time. I went ahead and cleaned the barrel (well, went through the motions. it was virtually spotless) and have it set aside. I'll let you guys know how it shoots after my brother gets it and sights in. Thanks

.

jakes10mm · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:40:36 AM »

Before you jump, check out the Winchester website. They have updated their site with new offerings for 2005. Some very nice looking rifles! And new choices for calibers: 38-55 and 25-35. I was considering a new revolver for next year's deer season, but I might have to divert the money towards a 94 Legacy in 38-55!

By the way, my vote goes to WInchester 94....if you haven't figured that out yet.