Author Topic: Mountain Howitzer carriage plans? (Read 2282 times)

Gringo Jack · « **on:** January 03, 2005, 07:56:23 PM »

Howdy All :grin:

I finally bought a full size mountain howitzer barrel from Graystar. IT looks real good although it does have a small DOM seam in the steel liner.
Hern iron works told me there mountain howitzer also has a seamed liner.

So I bought the greystar gun becuse they are closer to me and the shipping was cheaper. I don't plan on shooting it alot but will occasionally.

I remember reading here awhile back someone had plans they were e-mailing someone for making a carriage. I sure would appreciate getting a
copy of these plans if they are still available.

Thanks

Gringo :wink:

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2005, 03:03:10 AM »

Did you ask them for a seamed liner? Did they offer you the option of a seamless liner?

Seamed liners are not considered safe for cannons which are fired. Over a period of time black powder fouling can work its way into any micro pores of the welded seam through pressure or condensation. This can cause micro occlusions of corrosion to develop which can grow and finally allow the barrel to burst.

It is the same phenomenon that causes old Damascus shot gun barrels to be unsafe.

These cannon manufactures will tell you they have sold hundreds of guns and never had a problem. And, they most likely are being truthful with you. But this is like playing the lottery.

Your chances of winning are slim, but sooner or later somebody wins. Or in the seamed liner lottery somebody bursts a cannon. This is a lottery you don't want to win.

I have the carriage plans you need. I will not furnish them to you. I don't want it to appear that I encouraged you to build this gun and make it possible to be fired. Bluntly, I don't wish to be sued!

Bottom line seamed liners are dangerous to fire even with blank loads!

Gringo Jack · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2005, 04:49:35 AM »

Howdy Double D

Yes I did ask for a seamless liner and was told they have never sold one and if they did the price would be a great deal more money. even Hern Iron works did not offer me one. I guess I'll talk to my friend at the machine shop and see if something can be done! As for the plans Thanks anyway when all is said and done I guess I'll get them from Dixie. Sorry to have bothered you.

Later
Gringo

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2005, 06:02:20 AM »

You never bothered me. It is my pleasure provide help and quidance where ever Ii can so you can enjoycannon shooting.

You must understand that as board moderators we are in a public position and must be careful to promote only safe activities. If we see unsafe or unlawful acts we are obligated to point them out.

There is a long history seamed barrels rupturing. It does not happen frequently, but it does happen. As a moderator since I am aware of this, I must warn you.

I for personal reason carry this one step further, I won't knowingly assist any one in firing a gun with a seamed liner. Call it paranoia if you wish that is just my position. The legal term for it is CYA!

I'm sorry.

CAV Trooper · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2005, 06:07:45 AM »

Quote

Yes I did ask for a seamless liner and was told they have never sold one and if they did the price would be a great deal more money.

Actually, that's BS. I checked a source I have on the cost of tubing. Using 2" OD x 3/16" wall thickness x 3" length as a base example, the cost difference between seamless DOM tubing and 4130 welded seam tube is a whole $10 .

Not exactly a "great deal of money" where safety is concerned. I'd have no problem at all paying the extra $10 and not having to worry about the possibility of a KB some time down the road.

Quote

Yes I did ask for a seamless liner and was told they have never sold one

I also find that interesting since the Graystar web site states that "Seamed and seamless liners are available"

Mocrow · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2005, 01:46:08 PM »

CAV Trooper, Is there anyway to get the name and number of the steel supplier that has seamless pipe just $10 then DOM?

Thanks

CAV Trooper · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2005, 05:48:56 PM »

That was $10 more for the DOM tubing as compared to the price of welded seam for a 3' length in the size I listed.

Anyway, check out this web site:

http://www.onlinemetals.com/

They sell all sorts of metal in small quantities. How about 3" OD DOM with a 1/2" wall? Great cannon tube.

They even have round brass bar stock up to 10" in diameter! The good news is that you could turn a hell of a cannon with it. The bad news is that it costs $884.94 per foot!

Oh what the hell...where's that little plastic card? :wink:

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:17:22 PM »

The only reason you see seamless liners listed in Graystars webpage is because I pulled them from the Resource list.

The Owner of Graystar took exception to me noting next to his listing that he sold cannons with seamed liners and that such liners can be unsafe. So to accommodate him. I pulled his listing. he took greater exception to that. I only reposted his listing because he said he was going offer seamed liners.

In talking with the Gentleman from Graystar I learned that he is very knowledgable in the casting science and metallurgy. But he no experience in cannoneering. He never grasped the concerns that I expressed about liners.

We never did discuss the issues that about the how he cast the liners in place and the problem that has been reported about his liners not being straight. I didn't bring that up because the people who were suggesting their liners weren't straight never reported back to me.

CAV Trooper · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2005, 04:10:35 PM »

DD,

Thanks for the update and info on Graystar. I'm sure the gentleman knows a whole lot about casting and metallurgy but if he's going to be making cannons he really needs to learn about that too.

I guess that if one of his tubes ever goes KB on somebody, he figures that since he doesn't drill the touch hole and his web site has a disclaimer stating that "Cannons are sold as ornamental display pieces only" it will protect him from a massive lawsuit. Maybe it will but it sure won't do any good for the poor schmuck who gets caught in the blast.

Welded seam liners that are cast in place? No thank you, not in this life time. The prices may be attractive but like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". I'll stick with a company like SBR who does it right.

Oh yeah...During the entire British seige and bombardment of the Castillo de San Marcos in 1702 only 4 Spanish soldiers were killed. All were the result of one of their own iron guns blowing up. We still have a big piece of the tube on display. Real ugly.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2005, 04:36:47 PM »

My first "real" cannon barrel was from Graystar.... at best a bit of a disappointment. Was the breech end of the welded seam liner off center? When I drilled the fuse hole there is no doubt in my mind that it was drilled straight and true. When shining a light down through it and looking down the muzzle the hole appeared to be close to 3/8" off to the side. When a length of 1" dowel was inserted in the bore it pointed a bit to the left when looking down the barrel from breech to muzzle. Not exactly precision measurement but sure looked to me like the liner was off center at the breech end.

Mocrow · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:03:55 PM »

Seems there is some confusion as to what is offered. Both seamed and seamless cannons are offered but most do not want to pay the difference between the two. The price turns most people away and is a whole lot more then $10 difference in material cost. There are cannons sold on this web site from vendors that donÂ’t even have liners. The safety concerns speak for themselves, one must understand the sciences to be able to pick up where the manuals leave off.

As to any other problems with a barrel a simple correspondence would have fixed the situation??

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:40:53 PM »

Mocrow,

I know what you meant, but just to make it clear to others who don't there are no cannons sold on this website.

There is a list vendors who can assist a person in acquiring or makingh their own cannon.

You make a very valid point. Before you go spend your money on a cannon you must do your research. Find out what is right and what isn't.

Not all cannons need liners. Do the research and find out which do and which don't. But if you do need a liner, do not get a seamed liner.