Author Topic: Am I insane 410/45 (Read 830 times)

richardj · « **on:** January 02, 2005, 02:47:22 PM »

The internet can be a dangerous place.

Ok. I got a new handi-223 for a "to me, from me" for christmas.

Really want additional barrels, but since I "slid" the handi past without

financial advisement my wife says "not for awhile" actually she said

something completely different but this is a family forum. :shock:

Been reading about folks taking 303 british brass and fireforming
410 shotshells.

Handi has a 3" chamber. Fireformed brass is 2.5"

You can handload 410 shot

1 guy uses lead wieghts crimped on monofilament line for buckshot

Ouch !!

or

Thinking of taking a 45 LC die and putting a 45 bullet over mid range

powder to get about 1100 to 1300 fps.

Should be enough to drop anything that walks or stalks in Iowa.

Would really be something neat to fool with.

With fireform brass there would not be such a jump to the rifling.

I know you can also fireform 9.3x72R but that brass is pricey.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2005, 03:31:15 PM »

let me see if I have this right, fireform .303 British to a 2.5" brass .410 shotshell and load it with "grapeshot" or "chain shot"? I like it!!! what a great short range shell, for what I'm not to sure but I want to try it!!! Next Question to all out there in the know, Will it work?....<><.... :grin:

To think of all that .303 ammo I got rid of!!!

richardj · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2005, 04:03:36 PM »

Plus take a 230g Speer gold-dot at about 44 mag velocity should make a very versatile truck gun.

Talked to my dad. He thought load of rock salt should make the pesky neighborhood dogs take notice also. :-D

Fred M · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2005, 04:12:10 PM »

Good grieve. Reform 303 when you can get 410 2-1/2" Skeet hulls for a dime a dozen. Ballistic Products even sells 410 light game slugs or pour your own. Load the them with a hand role crimp. These slugs cost $14/100 complete with wad attached. Who needs to frig around with 303 empties.

richardj · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2005, 04:19:48 PM »

Thought I might need the heavier brass if I was going to reload for rifle.

Also thought I read that rifle primers are deeper than shotugn. Also a little hotter

single shot shooter · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2005, 05:57:21 PM »

fred m.
the 303 brass hold up longer than regular plastic shotshells that is why people use them instead.

jbtazgrabber · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2005, 06:45:30 PM »

i tried 444 marlin in my 410 it ok.... JB.....I JUST USE SHOT 4 SNAKES AT CLOSE RANGE ,,use t.p paper undershot and overshot then use ATV glue on top of top tolit paper to keep out unwanded stuff,and the shot in..... JB...

Fred M · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:19:56 PM »

single shot shooter
Yes I understand what the man is doing. I recall somebody shooting 44-40 out of a 410. It has to be a labor of love, and how many split necks would you end up with. I guess you can anneal the brass real soft for that purpose. A 410 shooting chain mail that is a new on me.

I love a 410, shot buckets full of Skeet loads, I even shot ducks on a permit hunt one time with a Rem 1100 Auto Skeet gun. I never forget that shoot I fired three boxes of #7-1/2and toke 56 ducks, non shot more than 20 yards.
Ducks were like swarms of mosquitos. The only time I ever made consecutive triples on ducks. They did not quit coming in, there were no limits on a permit shoot. The two Labradors simply went nuts. Well one can only dream now. But duck hunting is still good here.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:22:08 PM »

I don't know if it would work or not...but 410 shells around here are dirt cheap...and like Fred said...why?...It's a whole lot easier and cheaper than messing with brass hulls of any kind...and there is a ton of real data at anyones disposal...but hey...different strokes and all of that... :wink:

Mac

Stan in SC · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2005, 02:10:45 AM »

You don't have to fireform brass to achieve what you want.It is already available.
Barnaul(Russian) makes a .410 all metal ,shot loaded shell and they are quite reasonable.I found then at gun shows for my .410.
Also available from Sellier & Belloit are 3" shells loaded with 5 "00" buckshot.I have shot a few of these and at 25 yards four of them will go in the same hole.
Brenneke makes a 3" slug for the .410 that is equal or better than what you are proposing.They are very strong,accurate and will roll a wild dog dead at 45 yards.
Most of these are available from Natchez Shooter's Supply in Chattanooga,TN.They are good people to deal with and mail out the same day you order.Here in SC I can order one day and get delivery by UPS the next day.

Duce · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:03:42 AM »

Folks: The idea of fire forming .303 brass to make shotshells doesn't bother me, but swageing .44 cal. and .45 cal. slugs down a .41 cal. bore does. While it may not be dangerous, but looks like it would throw some real pressure spikes, while putting a real strain/stretch on the frame.

Don't want to come off as a nay sayer or know'it'all just don't want to read about a split barrel or cracked frame or worse yet someone injured. Be Careful: :eek: <>< Duce:

gino · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:22:20 AM »

I did a little tinkering with .303 & .444 brass to use in my M6. The rims on both are thicker than .410 shells. I had to remove .009 stock from the front of the rim to get the action to close. The rims are also smaller in diameter than the .410 so you have less extractor engagement, might or might not be a problem with your gun. All in all I found it to be an interesting experiment but not real practical. YMMV
gino :grin:

richardj · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:50:35 AM »

What started me on this was I was looking at getting the 410/45 colt barrel that comes on a survivor.

I assumed (I know, bad word) that the barrel was in the .451 to .452 area
so as to properly fire 45 colt ammo.

I enjoy my sight and my face, though some would argue with the latter,
too much to be trying to cram a .452 bullet down a .410 core.

Found some 260g cast bullets that would create an overall length of =~ 2.9".
The biggest complaint most people have is accuracy because there is such a large gap between a normal 45 colt bullet and the rifling.

I am simply trying to eliminate the gap while maintaing pressure and muzzle velocity of a 45 colt.

Some folks think this is a fools errand, but I like the idea of a truck gun that can either shoot off the shelf shotgun ammo or is fairly accurate with handrolled rifle ammo.

Bye the way we are having a jimdandy ice storm right now. Can't even get the dogs to go outside.

JPH45 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2005, 01:54:24 PM »

This idea has bounced around for a couple of years now, I don't know of anyone who has had entirely satisfactory results. It is a 452 barrel, no sane gun maker is going to put a 41 cal barrel out with a cahmebr that will accept 452 bullets, that is a recipe for a big time lawsuit. I wonder if another way of getting thereis to simply rechamber to a 45-90 or 45-120, but use 452 bullets. Might require the making of a special die set to get the cases to have a proper grip on the bullet. Could be as simple as not using an expander, depends on the amount of neck reduction in the die. Just a crazy idea of another approach.

The problem with simply using 410 shells is that while they would stand up to 45 Colt pressures, they won't allow for the pressures you could use with modified 303 cases. Those would take you into 40,000-45,000 psi territory. A 250 grain bullet at 2000 fps+ would be flat impressive.

Better yet would be if NEF would make a 454 Casuel barrel, then all this would be moot. But no, they had to bless/curse us with a 500 SW, go figure.