Author Topic: is short and stiff more accuret????  (Read 738 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mitchell

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2067
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« on: January 06, 2005, 07:38:37 PM »
i'm about to send my receiver back to NEF for some barrels. one of these barrels is going to be a 243 with its purpose being long range varmints. i know i want a bull barrel BUT do i want the 22 incher or the 24 incher?? well most people would say 24 which is what i'm leaning towred BUT if stiffer barrels have better barrel harmonics the in theory the 22 would be money accurate. but an other theory is longer barrel more accurate.

well what do you think ?? does anybody have any firsthand (or second or third or your brother's cousins sister's boyfriend had a friend that, yeah you know just talk to me) on these barrels?

like always thanks guys
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline Badnews Bob

  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2963
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2005, 09:19:12 PM »
On a scoped rifle the only thing a short barrell gives up to a longer barrel is velocity, and you'll not see enuff change in two inches to matter anyhow. In thery a shorter stiffer barrell will be more stable harmonically so it should shoot better. Don't think two inches will make any diff till your way out there anyway. Longer barrels help with iron sights by increassing the sight plane helps your eyes and decreases errors in alignment. 8)
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline marv

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
Barrel length
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2005, 02:18:10 AM »
MHO for what is worth If you bought a new 24 in barrel, shot it
 record how shot, thence cut 2 in off  shot again, with a good
 crowning job. bet you could not tell the difference!
 Marv

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2005, 02:32:18 AM »
I agree with Bob & Marv, the two inches doesn't amount to a hill of beans. There are so many other variables involved in the accuracy of any given barrel.  I question your choice of calibers though.  If long range varminting is your goal wouldn't the .223 be a better choice?  From what I have read hear and from postal match results it seems that the .223's are proving to be the most accurate of these guns.
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline Terrible Tom

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2005, 02:47:28 AM »
You might inquire about the new 22-250 fluted barrel.  They're selling the guns already and if you ask nicely maybe they'll fit one of those to your receiver.  The flutes make the barrel much stiffer and you get 22-250 ballistics in a 24" barrel.  Seems like the ideal varmint rig to me.  Whether or not they'll grant your request is another question.

Offline Lone Star

  • Reformed Gunwriter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2005, 03:12:32 AM »
Quote
The flutes make the barrel much stiffer and you get 22-250 ballistics in a 24" barrel.
This is a common misconception; you cannot remove metal from a tube and have it get stiffer.  What is true is a fluted barrel of the same weight and length as a non-fluted barrel will be stiffer.  Fluting is a method of lightening a given barrel, not to make it stiffer.  It also increases cooling by increasing the barrel's surface area - a little bit anyway.  In today's market, fluting is used as a sales tool, not a very practical modification.  It does look cool though, and I have two myself.   :D

Offline Terrible Tom

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2005, 03:17:39 AM »
Quote from: Lone Star
Quote
The flutes make the barrel much stiffer and you get 22-250 ballistics in a 24" barrel.
This is a common misconception; you cannot remove metal from a tube and have it get stiffer.  What is true is a fluted barrel of the same weight and length as a non-fluted barrel will be stiffer.  Fluting is a method of lightening a given barrel, not to make it stiffer.  It also increases cooling by increasing the barrel's surface area - a little bit anyway.  In today's market, fluting is used as a sales tool, not a very practical modification.  It does look cool though, and I have two myself.   :D


I was under the impression that the flutes added rigidity like a crease in sheet metal--you know, like the old Ford pickup ads always said.  I can definitely see the higher cooling rate and 'pound-for-pound' comparison.

In either case, it'd be cool if you could get the fluted barrel as an add-on instead of having to buy that skeletonized butt(-ugly) stock!

Offline bajabill

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2005, 04:52:49 AM »
Romoving material from a bull barrel to make flutes will reduce stiffness.  BUt the stiffness to weight ration will increase and some may claim this is better from a vibration standpoint.  The natural frequency is a function of mass and stiffness.

http://www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2005, 07:53:25 AM »
Here's an interesting fluted barrel discussion at predatormasters...

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006798
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Deadeye47

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2005, 08:13:55 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Here's an interesting fluted barrel discussion at predatormasters...

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006798
That is some serious accuracy that guy had for that 17  cal. pill at 100 yards!!!....and at over 4K fps!!! :eek: Makes my groups look kinda pitiful :(
" I believe that forgiving them [terrorists] is God''s function. OUR JOB is to arrange the meeting." Gen. Schwartzkopf........AMEN  Norman  :agree:

DECEASED 10-09-05

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2005, 08:23:22 AM »
You know, everyone keeps touting the .223 for long range shooting, even placing it against the .243.  I shoot at long ranges all the time, 300 yards and beyond.  The .223s that I own will not shoot accurately beyond 250 yards.  I own a T/C R, a Ruger M-77, a Remington 700, and two Handis, in .223.  My .243s all outshoot them, they are T/C R, Ruger M-77, and a Handi.  The .243s will reach out and touch things 500 yards and beyond.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline mitchell

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2067
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2005, 08:45:22 AM »
i already own a 223 ultra guys  and the 243 BC'c are so mush better its no question what one can nock over groundhogs at 500
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline Ditchdigger

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1385
  • Gender: Male
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2005, 05:17:26 AM »
I like the Heavy barrels myself,mainly because they are easier to hold steady with a not so steady rest. Also the extra 2" will usually add 60 to 80 ' fps. The 223's are about 100 fps. faster with the 24" barrel(3450fps.) versus the 22" at 3350 fps. with the Win. varmit  ammo.
Rest in Peace Old Friend July 2017

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
is short and stiff more accuret????
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2005, 06:29:27 AM »
The shorter barrel has the edge on accuracy in theory. In hunting weight rifle barrels even with the lighter contours there is practically very little or no difference in accuracy between a 22, 24, 26" length.

What is very much different with the shorter barrels is noticeable greater muzzle blast. One thing you should consider, a Handi with a 26" barrel is about the same lenght than a bolt action with a 20" barrel.

A 24" barrel is the better choice, in a Handi and it has a better balance between the hands. The longer barrels on single shot rifles also add bit of forward weight which adds to pointing and smoother swing and steadies the off hand shot.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.