Author Topic: "State of Fear"  (Read 1079 times)

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Offline Jack Crevalle

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"State of Fear"
« on: December 26, 2004, 06:21:53 AM »
What do you get when a Harvard-educated Hollywood insider decides to write a book about global warming?

You'd think the answer was obvious but no, Michael Crichton who has wriiten such books as "Jurrasic Park" and created the TV show "ER", latest novel is likely to get him in hot water with the hollywood liberal crowd.

The book blasts the theory of global warming and provides endless citations to back up the author's conclusions. On top of that, the villians of this story are big-money environmental groups supported by eco-terrorists. Lesser "useful idiots" are hollywood types and lawyers.

It will be interested to see how Hollywood and liberals in general attack Crichton for this.

It will be the usual emotion-based, fact-less attack I'm sure ("Won't somebody think about the children!?") because Crichton is a graduate of Harvard Medical school and has an objective view of the world.

Thanks to the missus for getting me this book for Christmas.

Offline Shorty

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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2004, 10:11:34 AM »
Considering the weather this past week, a little global warming might be welcome!  :lol:   Next summer the alarmists will be back!  :wink:

Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2004, 01:22:21 PM »
No, it's been my experience that the wacko element blames even colder than normal years on global warming, claiming that it creates severe weather conditions such as more hurricanes, blizzards, etc. This is also dealt with in the book where it is shown that there has not been an increase in severe weather.

Offline magooch

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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2004, 04:18:21 AM »
Once and for all, global warming is a myth.  Even if it were true, I'd be for it.  Who in their right mind would be for global cooling?  In any case, there is absolutely nothing that man can do about it.

That said, sure we should do what can be reasonably done to keep air polution down, but I'd be more worried about the quality of air I'm breathing than what the air is doing to the weather.
Swingem

Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2004, 05:28:04 AM »
This is not far from Michael Crichton's conclusion. Global warming may be happening but he points out that:

There are several positives to this.

There is no proof that it is caused by human actions.

There is probably nothing that we can do to change it. For instance he shows that the odious Kyoto treaty will only reduce CO2 emissions by hundredths of a percent.

As to pollution he agrees but are we always eliminating the right thing? In the book he points out that Freon was eliminated without proof that it was causing harm to the atmosphere and the consequence of this was that many people in poorer nations may have died as the result of not having cheap refrigirants to preserve food.

Offline Shorty

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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2004, 01:47:39 PM »
Jack,
The Ecofreaks don't care if millions of Homosapiens have their standard of living reduced.  They care that polar bears can't catch seals!  
But that's not the point.  The world has been warming up for 10,000 years!  That is a fact!  Like a tea kettle, the faster it warms, the faster it warms.  That's simple physics.  The real question is, is man causing it and can he do anything about it?  On that, the jury is still out.   8)

Offline dbuz

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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2004, 05:46:11 AM »
It's those darn volcanoes. I say we make them pay for all of the mess they are causing. Mt. St. Helens, if I unstand correctly, has produced more air pollution than man has since we've become industrialized. Add to mix the space shuttles that go through the ozone layer and probably burn holes in it, if the ozone myth is true. I personally believe the earth is going through naturally occuring cycles. Who has been keeping data from the last thousand years? :shock:
If you can earn it, why did He have to die?

Offline smokey66

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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2004, 02:01:11 PM »
Amen dbuz..  
Quote
I personally believe the earth is going through naturally occuring cycles. Who has been keeping data from the last thousand years?

remember the ice age? another natural phenomenon

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2004, 02:10:33 PM »
1883 ,same region  and it was know around the world 20th Lats. as the summer with out the sun.In th 15th century we had a little Ice age,1500 years ago a great drought------------------------Henry Ford was not around for these events.The earth woobles in its eliptical canted orbit.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline MATLOCK12C

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 03:58:09 PM »
The whole thing global warning / global cooling and all the rest is a crock o bad fish in my opinion.
I just find it hard to belive that "our creator" did not figure in everything we would do as time progressed, and work it all into the "big picture". I know that seem's to be a "pat" answer, but it's how I feel about it.
It's like that whole Y-2k thing, that was a washout, but they sold alot of stuff to folks. Yes I bought into it too, but I got a good generator out of it though and some other things that I had been putting off getting just to be better prepaired.
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Offline MGMorden

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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2005, 04:15:36 PM »
Quote from: MATLOCK12C
It's like that whole Y-2k thing, that was a washout, but they sold alot of stuff to folks. Yes I bought into it too, but I got a good generator out of it though and some other things that I had been putting off getting just to be better prepaired.


Most of the people in the computing industry would have downplayed Y2K though.  It's all in understanding the nature of the problem.  Worst case scenario was that a computer would think it was 1900 instead of 2000.  Does that need to be fixed?  You betcha (and for most systems it was). Will it cause civilization to end?  Not by a long shot.  It was only a problem on certain systems anyways (namely MS Windows).  Macintosh computers never had the problem to start with and Unix based systems, the types of computers that act as the servers for the majority of the internet and many other systems, don't really hit a hiccup until Jan 19 2038 (as they keep track of time as the number of seconds past Jan 1 1971, with this number for most of them limited to a 32-bit binary integer.  It's thought that most of them will be at least using 64-bit integers by that time though).

Global warming on the other hand, is a problem.  It's unmistakable that the world SHOULD be warming right now.  We are still coming out of the last Ice Age and the world isn't as warm now as it normally is.  The problem though is the rate of change.  It's starting to get warmer much quicker than it has been in recent centuries.

The level of this problem (and man's level of involvement in causing it) is quite another nature.  It's a little too easy to find it chilly inside and say "bring on the global warming".  If the temperature shifts up high enough a lot of things can happen.  A few thousand years ago the Sahara dessert was great farmland.  Now it's . . . . a dessert.  Climate changes caused this.  If the temperature increases enough we could see a shift in which land is optimal for farming.  That could put us (the United States) in a very bad position because despite all the outsourcing that hass happened in the technology and manufacturing fields, we still produce a lot of food.  By the same token if the temperature went too high parts of the equator could become uninhabitable.  

There's also the problem of the polar ice caps.  If they melt to a great enough extent then a VERY large portion of the world's coast line's could dissappear.  Now this would be a gradual process of water rising (not like a wave coming in or anything), but it would still be a terrible thing to loose all land within 20-30 miles of a coastline.  That's if we aren't plunged back into another ice age by the fresh water disrupting the NA Current (the plot of the movie "Day After Tommorow".  WAY overblown but the basic science behind it is correct).

All in all, it doesn't take an "environut" to want to check into stuff like this.  The world is heating up.  Man definately has some hand in it, but the level is admittedly still debatable.  How much we can do about it now is also questionable, but looking into cleaner burning fuels and avoiding CFC's are reasonable things.  I for one thing that electric cars are a WONDERFUL idea if we can get more quickly charging batteries.  Heck it would be a good thing if only to lessen our dependence on middle-eastern oil and piss off OPEC. :lol:  For the most part I'm not in favor of government requirements for such things though (hopefully people will just be bright enough to make reasonable decisions on their own).

Offline huntsman

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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2005, 03:55:46 AM »
MGM, you are right on with most of your post. There simply isn't enough significant data to reach a scientific conclusion on the effect of man's activity on global temperature change at this point in time. We have neither a complete enough historical data base for comparison to modern data, nor a sound enough theory of the modern effects of our activities (emissions, thermal output, etc.) to say whether or not climate is indeed changing significantly due to our activities.

We do know from ice core sample studies that climate on Earth has varied greatly in the past, from centuries-long ice ages that affected up to 1/2 of Earth's landmass, to the existence of vast deserts across a great portion of the Northern Hemisphere, to tropical rainforests ranging as far north as present-day New York State. We also know that these climate changes have sometimes occurred quickly in the geologic time scale, such as mini-ice ages that have descended in a matter of decades.

I watched an old episode of "In Search Of", a quasi-science series from the late 70s and early 80s hosted by Leonard Nimoy, just a few months ago. This program was recorded in the late 70s, and the episode was focused on the theory that a new ice age was descending upon Earth. Evidence was a rash of severe cold that gripped North America for several years at the time. I chuckled to myself that 25 years later we are deep into a debate over global warming. Many climatologists have in fact theorized that the current "global warming" is a mere hiccup in a general trend toward a new ice age that will manifest in the next 300 or so years.

The fact is, we are only beginning to unravel the mystery of climate and its causes. It is far too presumptuous for anyone to predict any climate trends based on a few centuries of data, much of which is limited in scope and accuracy.
There is no more humbling experience for man than to be fully immersed in nature's artistry.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2005, 04:14:35 AM »
"State of Fear" should be read by all for it's statistics and back up data,and while you are reading good books read Soft America Hard America by Michael Barone.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Sheila

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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2005, 04:22:52 AM »
Quote from: dbuz
It's those darn volcanoes. I say we make them pay for all of the mess they are causing. Mt. St. Helens, if I unstand correctly, has produced more air pollution than man has since we've become industrialized. Add to mix the space shuttles that go through the ozone layer and probably burn holes in it, if the ozone myth is true. I personally believe the earth is going through naturally occuring cycles. Who has been keeping data from the last thousand years? :shock:


And don't forget about  farting.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2005, 04:39:42 AM »
Each time I ponder it!
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline MATLOCK12C

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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2005, 03:18:45 PM »
WHAT? ME WORRY?  NO, I DONT THINK SO...
Call me crazy boy's but I do belive the "Powers that be" do sell us "a little fear" just to keep the heard togather so to speak.
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2005, 01:01:24 AM »
Been keeping up on this thought, and most of it I see is pretty good, from a purely humanistic thought process. I will offer a different perspective.
The Lord our God has a handle on the whole chain of events here. He not only is creator, He is also the manager (all things are held together in his hands--purely my words, not those as are recorded, check out your own scripture.)
I cannot see as to how we are ever gonna overcome any event the Lord has in his plans. We may want to say he has given us the power, thru wisdom, to control our destiny, but I will argue that is just not the case.
Folks this is all goin down just the way he wants it. I, for one, do not fear anything. I have put my trust in HIM, and will go along with his plan with rejoicing, praise and contentment.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline MGMorden

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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2005, 03:06:23 AM »
Quote from: williamlayton
Been keeping up on this thought, and most of it I see is pretty good, from a purely humanistic thought process. I will offer a different perspective.
The Lord our God has a handle on the whole chain of events here. He not only is creator, He is also the manager (all things are held together in his hands--purely my words, not those as are recorded, check out your own scripture.)
I cannot see as to how we are ever gonna overcome any event the Lord has in his plans. We may want to say he has given us the power, thru wisdom, to control our destiny, but I will argue that is just not the case.
Folks this is all goin down just the way he wants it. I, for one, do not fear anything. I have put my trust in HIM, and will go along with his plan with rejoicing, praise and contentment.
Blessings


God swept away nearly the entire race of man because they were corrupt.  Would you not call it a corruption to destroy the world that he placed here for us?  If it's one thing that's clear it's that if man screws up too badly the Lord isn't afraid to wipe the slate clean and start over.  I don't think he planned for any of that to happen (because if it were so then then God would have intentionally created man to be disobedient, which is not logical).  As such one can only reason that we have free will to act as we wish.  Be wary of the reprocussions though.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2005, 04:22:18 AM »
MG-
I understand your thought however I must ask if you consider an omnipitent God to react? The thought on destroying the world is abundant in phrophecy ?
The Lord made us free willed in order that he may show his love. OR if that is not a clear description of my thoughts-he made us to choose in order to show grace.
ANYWHO
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD