Aw, Dave, no duh's involved, besides you may have saved my bacon!!! My Lyman and Nosler loading manuals and IMR reloading phamplet say 53-57 for this combo, But! The sister-plinking load of 57 and a 165 gameking (which shoots in the same hole as the nosler) is a full grain over charged according to my new sierra reloading manual!! Am I gonna change it??? Probably not, it's been well tested in my rifle. But it does reenforce the idea of multiple manuals, dropping the charge and working up again when changing something in a load and take everything you hear with a small grain of salt.