Author Topic: World's junkiest 1911s. What are they? (Read 2678 times)

Questor · « **on:** January 14, 2005, 05:09:56 AM »

What 1911 clones are the worst ever made? Why are they bad? I have read that some have really bad metal, but haven't paid much attention to the ones to avoid.

Vern Humphrey · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:28:55 AM »

You'd have to go a long way to beat my Fed Ord M1911A1. I bought this gun as a "do it yourself kit." It basically came as several hunks of metal with instructions to file away everything that doesn't look like an M1911A1.

After quite a bit of work -- and a lot of new parts to replace the poor quality of the original parts, I got a functioning M1911A1 except for one little problem -- the firing pin tunnel was off center. Firing pin hits were at the bottom edge of the primer. If they had been at the TOP, a longer link might have helped, but a shorter link would have left the gun with dangerously little locking lug engagement.

The only way to economically solve this problem was a new slide. That was just about the time Ciener brought out his .22 Conversion, so I ordered one, installed it -- and the gun has worn it ever since.

With a Chip McCormic prepped hammer, sear and trigger, it's a decent little plinker. Some day I'll pick up a cheap surplus slide, refinish it, and convert the gun back to .45. Maybe.

Iowegan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2005, 12:46:47 PM »

Charles Daly pops up first.

lefty o · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:30:28 PM »

the older auto ordnance's.

Bigdog57 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2005, 01:54:01 AM »

Ditto on the older AO's. A Navy buddy in the mid-eighties tried one, as he really wanted a 1911. The dealer had an indoor range. It didn't get through one magazine before the slide locked up. The counter guy used a mallet to free it. Okay, try another one. Three rounds, same thing! The mallet failed to free this one.
My buddy ends up with the Colt .357 Magnum revolver, a DA on the Lawman/Trooper frame, IIRC.

From what I hear, the AO's are better now - but I still can't quite bring myself to trust them.

Had another buddy experience serious problems with a couple .45ACP Llamas - wouldn't eject properly. He now has a Springfield 1911A1.

STW · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2005, 06:01:56 AM »

Had one of the older AOs for a while, bought at a show and was my first firearm of any kind :shock: . I put only about 75 (ball) rounds through it before realizing I liked shooting and so started saving for a Colt. But it had no jams or problems in those 75 rounds. Since it was my first firearm, I can't say anything about the accuracy :roll: I'd read about then that the newer AOs were improved and I compared mine close up to a new AO at a shop and, if anything there were more sloppy tool marks and bad finish on the new one. Doesn't say anything about shooting quality though.

unclenick · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2005, 07:55:14 AM »

Quote from: Vern Humphrey

. . . I got a functioning M1911A1 except for one little problem -- the firing pin tunnel was off center. Firing pin hits were at the bottom edge of the primer. . .

Vern,

This is very common among 1911's which have had the barrel fitted to lock up into the slide completely. Way at the bottom edge is a little extreme, but halfway between the center and the bottom edge is pretty normal. The barrel breech is now higher, so the pin hits lower.

Generally, this situation doesn't cause a functioning problem with modern primers. However, if this gun is one your life depends on or one you want to use in important matches, you should run several thousand rounds through without a failure just to be sure. If you get any failures due to the primer strike location, it can be fixed.

The repair involves opening up the firing pin hole enough to accept a press-fit bushing with an eccentric firing pin hole of its own, off-center by a compensating amount, and installed hole eccentric up. It is installed with Loctite 271 or Loctite Nu-Metal to ensure the new hole can't get out of location.

Nick

Vern Humphrey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2005, 08:54:04 AM »

Quote from: unclenick

Quote from: Vern Humphrey
. . . I got a functioning M1911A1 except for one little problem -- the firing pin tunnel was off center. Firing pin hits were at the bottom edge of the primer. . .

Vern,

This is very common among 1911's which have had the barrel fitted to lock up into the slide completely. Way at the bottom edge is a little extreme, but halfway between the center and the bottom edge is pretty normal. The barrel breech is now higher, so the pin hits lower.

If this were a high-quality gun, that might be the case, but this gun was definitely a collection of sub-standard parts. There wasn't enough locking lug engagement -- even with the low primer strikes. A shorter link would have been dangerous.

This was just a bad slide

Quote from: unclenick

[Generally, this situation doesn't cause a functioning problem with modern primers. However, if this gun is one your life depends on or one you want to use in important matches, you should run several thousand rounds through without a failure just to be sure. If you get any failures due to the primer strike location, it can be fixed.

The repair involves opening up the firing pin hole enough to accept a press-fit bushing with an eccentric firing pin hole of it own, off-center by a compensating amount, and installed hole eccentric up. It is installed with Loctite 271 or Loctite Nu-Metal to ensure the new hole can't get out of location.

Nick

Yes -- an earlier method was to drill out the firing pin hole, tap it and screw in a bit of threaded rod, face off the breech and re-drill.

But the cost of doing either fix would exceed the $50 cost of a surplus slide. The most economical fix in this situation was a new slide, and while shopping for a surplus replacement, I noticed Ciener's first ad for their new .22 Conversion Kit, and bought that instead.

zoyter2 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2005, 01:57:42 PM »

LLama....'nuff said.

ppcrusa · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2005, 09:41:45 AM »

Para Ordnance LDA Para Carry PXT. Supposed to be really nice. Off center primer hits, rapid metal wear after 150 rds. Malfunctioned every other shot out of the box. A terrible excuse for a pistol.

# 2 would be Springfield Armory Champion I had after the above item. Rough frame to slide fit. Slide serrations so sharp they cut into your hands. Thumb safety that was also prone to cutting your hand. FAKE stainless parts(thumb safety was really hard chrome carbon steel, so was slide stop and grip safety). Gun shot high. Screwed up sear. Sent to factory. They kept it 6 weeks. They simply replaced front sight and let the rest "fly". I DITCHED it. What a junker. Sorry lame warranty too. Springfield, you sucked on this one.

volshooter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2005, 09:53:43 AM »

I've got an older AO. I bought it around 79-80 new. The only problem I ever had was stovepiping. A buddy of mine who worked in the armory for uncle sam looked and said the extractor had a slight rounded (inside)lip instead of a nice sharp corner. He took a triangle file and cut it in a minute or two. Since then I have fired many many rounds in it without any problems whatsoever. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds a month (200-500 of some hardball but mostly handloaded swc). I guess mine is the exception to the rule, Twenty something years and still shoots fine, I still got it.

rick

BamBams · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2005, 09:53:57 AM »

If it makes ya feel any better, my Springfield Stainless 1911 was sold in less than a week. I took it out on Monday. Shot some 8 inch groups on Tuesday, and sold it on Wednesday -- taking a small loss to boot!

Vern Humphrey · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2005, 10:00:47 AM »

You guys are really makin' me feel good about my M1927 Argentine and my Kimber Custom Classic -- both great guns that eat anything I feed them, and shoot as well as I can hold. :grin:

John R. · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2005, 05:37:16 AM »

Llama without a doubt is the biggest piece of crap followed closely by Auto-Ordance and Norinco. I also agree about the Springfield Champion. A buddy of mine has one and it still isn't reliable even after a couple of trips to the gunsmith.

luv45 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2005, 07:31:42 AM »

Quote from: John R.

Llama without a doubt is the biggest piece of crap followed closely by Auto-Ordance and Norinco. I also agree about the Springfield Champion. A buddy of mine has one and it still isn't reliable even after a couple of trips to the gunsmith.

Huuum, I have a Norinco that I have owned for 10 years now. It has out performed any of the Colts that I have owned over the years.

BamBams · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2005, 09:02:39 AM »

Quote from: luv45

Quote from: John R.
Llama without a doubt is the biggest piece of crap followed closely by Auto-Ordance and Norinco. I also agree about the Springfield Champion. A buddy of mine has one and it still isn't reliable even after a couple of trips to the gunsmith.

Huuum, I have a Norinco that I have owned for 10 years now. It has out performed any of the Colts that I have owned over the years.

Yeah, but is that really saying much? *laugh*

44 Man · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2005, 09:34:50 AM »

I think you can get good or bad in anything. The old AMTs had some problems. I built up a 1911 once using an AMT frame and a colt slide. Jam city until I built up the latch on the magizine release to raise the mag a little higher in the frame. Never missed a beat after that. Aparently the frame was off spec a little. I have an older Auto Ordance that I enjoy very much. It works every time. Not the best shooter, but adaquite and I may tighten it up someday. Had a Kimber Custom in stainless that jammed all the time. Put in a stronger recoil spring and polished the feed ramp. Ran great after that. And Kimbers are generally reguarded as one of the best. A gunsmith friend of mine says he has worked on more Springfield Armorys than anything else, but I hear from some that they are great. You can get a good 'bad one' or sometimes a bad 'good one'. Nice thing about 1911's, they are usually easily fixable, not like the Ruger Superblackhawk that had .012 end play in the cylinder and .013 barrel/cylinder gap. It did shoot good though. 44 Man

kjeff50cal · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2005, 06:37:32 PM »

I was in a full service gun shop (since long closed) when one of the gunsmiths in the back fired a customer's AMT Hardballer .45 into the bullet trap to see how it functioned....... It went full auto :shock: :shock: :shock: :eek: !!! By the time the clip ran out 4 of the 8 shots loaded FMJ blew through the wall behind the trap :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: . After everyone got up from the floor & checked underware, we looked at the damage. The 4 rounds that escaped the trap ended up in one of the sales staff office walls showering his desk with plaster. No one was hurt but.... No one dared to bring in an AMT after that.

kjeff50cal

knight0334 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2005, 03:28:36 PM »

Quote from: luv45

Quote from: John R.
Llama without a doubt is the biggest piece of crap followed closely by Auto-Ordance and Norinco. I also agree about the Springfield Champion. A buddy of mine has one and it still isn't reliable even after a couple of trips to the gunsmith.

Huuum, I have a Norinco that I have owned for 10 years now. It has out performed any of the Colts that I have owned over the years.

Same here... In fact, Norinco is one of the few "approved" for the .45 Rowland @ Clark Customs. It is one of the handful recommended.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

The finish on mine could be better, but the action is wonderful and the throat ramp is one of the best I've seen even compared to the Colt's. Not once has it failed me or jammed in the 12 1/2 years I've owned it.

Charlie1947 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2005, 10:49:25 AM »

Hi folks,
I see someone mentioned, Charles Daly. My experience with a Daly was
excellent. I had signed up for TX CCW, but didn't have a pistol for it. I bought the Daly, went straight to the 2 day class. I had NO time to fire it.
I qualified with an 85. There were NO FAILURES, the little pistol functioned
perfectly!! :grin: I would certainly recommend it. I also have a Daly auto
shotgun, bought used. I contacted Daly for chokes and a manual. I also wanted to put a carry sling, but needed the parts to do so. In 4 days I had the parts and manual FREE, not even any shipping. MY experience with ANYTHING DALY has been great! The only thing I paid for was the chokes I wanted.

R. Tillery · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:38:56 AM »

Ditto on AMTs. I had a Longslide. It SUCKED! 2nd 'worst' was a Springfield SS Mil-Spec. It had a warped slide. Springfield DID replace it, though.

S.S. · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2005, 08:47:37 AM »

AMT HARDBALLER LONGSLIDE was the worst I think.
The slide and the frame were both made of very
UNPOLISHED stainless steel and Galling was a problem.
The rough edges on the slide would BITE the rough edges
on the frame and cause Jam after Jam. I never knew of
a happy buyer of one of those.
Some of the DETONICS guns sucked pretty bad too.
They seemed to weigh a ton!
I really liked their .451 Detonics magnum cartridge though.

November · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2005, 05:18:10 PM »

My first 1911 was (and is) a Charles Daly Compact when they first came out. It had every functioning problem I'd ever heard of and some that were new to me. That gun has taught me alot in regards to working on my own gun and I finally solved all it's troubles. It's a keeper for no other reason than I busted my hump getting it to run right and now I couldn't imagine someone else owning it and not appreciating what went into it. Would I get another Charles Daly? If it was under $300.

Re: NORINCO...my second 1911 and another keeper. Zero malfunctions and very accurate. I passed on another one NIB last year for $300. Lord, forgive me.